User talk:Jonathan Tweet

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Welcome!

Hello, Jonathan Tweet, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  +Hexagon1 (talk) 03:54, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Satan and the Serpent

Hey man.

As far as the Satan article goes, if you look at the history page, I was only responding to a vandal (72.26.93.96) who blanked most of the article. You may notice that my revision (simply a revert) is identical to the version before the vandal's version. I think the edit you're looking for was actually made by Ardric47. Sorry I can't be of more service. Keep up the good editing! Seidenstud 05:29, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Satan Contents

Hi Jonathan I've just seen your new post on satan talk page I didn't relise some of the contents was being moved. Last night I did a ton of alterations removing cites from that page, your new page still has them so you will have to recopy some of the info over to include the citations. It's just be a case of moving the paragraphs the references will generate them selves. Lots of the cites you can simply remove because they refer to info thats already cited on other pages. Anyway just letting you know. Best Regards, -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 17:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jonathan, No problem I've done it already, it wasn't too bad seems most of my edits missed the content on the other page the only change I made that effects you is to View - Middle Ages. I've added some Categories and also put the References bit at the bottom so the references generate properly on the new page. I've added a message at the top of the Satan page so other editors know about the content being moved. Ill probably remove the info from the other page for you too as long as the internet stays on. Hope you wife gets well soon. Best Regards -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 14:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

I've moved the majority of the info some bits might still be left on the original pages Satan and Devil you would have a better idea than me. I've also added a section to link the Satan/Devil page to Devil in Christianity page with the intro. It seems to me either the Satan or Devil pages shouldn't really exist as they serve the same purpose. I might stick a merge tag on them what do you think? -- Shimirel ^(Talk) 15:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lost tribes

I am coming to a conclusion that you have a fixation on Europeans and rather obscure LDS thought! (lol) I will post this entry on Jade's talk page also. I am not aware of any precise doctrine regarding literal or adoption into the House of Israel; they both result in the same thing. I am aware that based upon Biblical teaching the ten lost tribes were taken into the north country; that has been interpreted as any country north of Israel. Early leaders of the LDS felt that some of the scattered descendants of these members of the House of Israel did end up in Europe. Some further concluded that because some Europeans readily accepted the gospel that they were these descendants.

I believe Jade's comment on the Ten lost tribes article is not a statement with which I would be completely comfortable, but I also think it is a difference without any significance. We are talking about LDS thought that is obscure; it is not often discussed.

The one time where tribal affiliation is discussed is one's patriarchal blessing. This blessing's main purpose is to identify tribal affiliation. The majority of LDS in days past has been from the House of Ephraim. However, in discussions with multiple patriarchs I have been made to understand that within the church are represented members of every house of Israel. The distinction between adoption and literal descendant is not often discussed. It is believed that some are literal descendants and some are adopted. As I said earlier, it is a difference without significance. All members become part of the covenant people and are responsible for learning to become like the Master, Jesus Christ. That is where we tend to have problems; it is a lifelong pursuit and and we all fall short, but we continue to strive to live as His disciples.

I believe the article should be edited to read more in keeping with this statement or something similar: Within the LDS church is believed to exist members of all of the tribes of Israel; either adopted into the House of Israel or literal descendants. However, there is no difference between being a literal descendant and adopted into the House of Israel. Hope this helps. Storm Rider ^(talk) 07:22, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RE: Old Nick

Thanks for fixing the "English" link so that it goes to a real page. But I think that page should be "England," since it's the English nationality and heritage that it refers to rather than to the language. I'm fixing it, hoping that you agree. Jonathan Tweet 01:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

My bad. Sometimes I do so many of those disambig pages that I get confused. The vast majority of my wiki edits happen at work, so that doesn't help things either. Thanks for catching my mistake. --Oatmeal batman 04:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You have achieved the Wikibrains barnstar medal for your contributions to Euthanasia! Congratulations --F3rn4nd0 09:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)!

[edit] ty

Thank you for the compliment. I don’t expect things to get heated, and I would like to take the chance to thank you again for your interest and time concerning the article. I will say, if you are interested in things like purgatory, you're likely to bump into a Catholic or two. =) Lostcaesar 08:35, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aminz

To be quite honest, you've stepped into this discussion quite late. There has been a lot of consensus on this issue, from a multitude of editors: Aminz has consistently tried to add content saying that Christians have not been persecuted under Muslims much at all, something which is patently unhistorical. What's more, we have often been willing to try to negotiate with him, to include part of his text, but he is unwilling to negotiate. He has gone through many mechanisms to add this text, and quite frankly, we've been more than patient with him. Please, I ask you, if you are going to take a side so strongly in the future, I encourage you to do your homework. While I am a Christian, I do not think I am any more partisan towards an issue than you probably think yourself; I do not have a grudge against Aminz. But he has consistently added this unhistorical content in order to promote his Islamic agenda. Again, please, do your homework before making an assumptionin the future. -Patstuart^{(talk)(contribs)} 19:17, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-trinitarians

Hi JT, first let me say I did not mean any slight at all by the comment I made about referencing a good book rather than an internet article (though I will say that a fair amount of experience in debating has ingrained an ability for me to sneak in a slight in even the most well-meaning of statements, perhaps a drawback in more friendly dialogue!). About the JS, I think you will get farther in the section on Non-Trinitarians first if you quote from a source that has a smaller axe to grind, if you get what I am saying. Like I said, I don't know enough about the JS to say one way or another myself. Part of the difficulty that you are running into is that the Trinity is about the only doctrine holding together certain protestant ecumenical groups, and since in those groups (by their nature) it is often wondered just what makes someone Christian, the easy answer of Trinitarianism (and the related belief in the consubstantiality of Jesus), once accepted, relegates other groups like LDS and JWM to non-Christian status. The article itself seems to ponder over just what constitutes the identity of "Christian/Christianity", and so your edits have inflamed an open wound, so to speak. So this is quite sensitive. I don't know how much I can help but I will think about it an get back to you. There is a way to phrase this, I know, but it just has to be properly nuanced. Lostcaesar 14:49, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

PS, I haven't forgotten about this, Im just burried atm, sorry, I will get to it soon Lostcaesar 09:31, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Its up, Lostcaesar 00:17, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I thought I got that in there about the "unbiblical" and "tainted peroid of history" part, but I forgot you wanted the JS reference; I think we can say around this place "...which has found agreement by the contemporary scholars of the Jesus Seminar" or something like that... let me have a look. Lostcaesar 14:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok, since I don't have the ref at hand, let me know what you think about this: at the end of the section, last paragraph, add a final sentence "The view that Jesus did not teach his own divinity [or perhaps "did not claim to be divine / coequal with the Father - you get the idea] has found agreement by the contemporary scholars of the JS [ref]" Lostcaesar 14:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Its up, if you get more refs then more can be added if needs be. Lostcaesar 16:38, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Something I was curious about

I've read some of the things on your website, which makes me curious as to your motivations on this comment of yours. It doesn't seem like a comment that someone who's a bright and makes a website with articles like yours would make, were you being sarcastic? I'm just curious is all Homestarmy 17:09, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Curious about something else

Hey Jonathan, I feel driven to ask you this question: why aren't you Christian? You know so much about Christianity and what the Bible says; and the way you talk about it, it almost seems like you do believe it. So, out of curiosity, what's keeping you from becoming a Christian? --Christknight 22:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I must start by saying that you have an extremely philosophical mind, and I admire that; I wish I could sit down and and have a real discussion with you. But on to the point. The problems with Christianity you put on your site all have answers to them. I understand how difficult it is to believe in what you can't see, but this is exactly why Jesus tells us in Matthew 18:3-4 to become like little children. Now what this means is not to become ignorant or misunderstanding, all it means is to have the faith of a child. If a child is told something by his father, he belives it no matter what anyone else says. This makes it hard for us because we think that as we've grown, we've gotten more more intelligent and more logical - so we think that something we can't see must not be there. However, the Bible says in John 20:29 "blessed are those who believe without seeing." Now, about hell... Christians do not think that Hell is some sort of payback system for them to believe in to help make themselves feel better about themselves. In fact, the Bible says many times not to think that way about our enemies. One example, Matthew 5:43-44, which says to love our enemies and pray for them, not hate them. Also, people don't go to hell because they are mean to Christians or anything like that, but beacause of separation from God. That's why God tells us to spread the good news - to keep people from going to hell at all. But, in the second to last paragraph of your hell page, you have Christianity confused with Islam. The Bible never says anything about God giving his children eternal sex in heaven or anything perverse like that. So, if you can't tell already, I'm saying that the Bible can fix all your problems, and that I think you should be a Christian. --Christknight 06:07, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Historical Jesus

Thanks for the nice message. I'll take on board your advice abt going thru the talk page. As for the cross section, I agree that it needs a new start, but I lack any reference books. PiCo 08:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The Christianity article is a bit big for me, and full of things I know nothing about. (I did delete the reference to Acharya S, whom I see you want to keep in - I've explained my reasons on the talk page). I'll keep on a bit longer with the HJ article, but I'll restrict myself to editorial suggestions in view of my complpete lack of books. PiCo 06:22, 24 November 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Hi!

Just randomly wanted to say "hi", and comment that your home page is the first reference I've seen to Tekumel for several years. I've never played EPT, but a friend at school (about a hundred years ago) had the book, and I thought its crafted coherence superior to the sprawling chaos that is D&D. Myopic Bookworm 11:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I wrote some things on the talk page of Christian apologetics.

I wrote some things on the talk page of Christian apologetics. I don't think we are going to resolve our difference of opinion on this matter though. By the way, I do believe we achieved a compromise position on the articles opening, however. ken 02:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)Kdbuffalo

[edit] Christianity

I read your comments on the Christianity page and i'm sorry you're having such a hard time but I'm afraid every editor I've seen challenge the orthodox view eventually gets burned out with all the wikilawyering that goes on there. Modern scholarship is moving the way you state but Christians detest the JS so it's like sticking in pins to use them as an example. Have you read Elaine Pagels or Thomas L. Thompson [1] [2]? You can waste an awful lot of time on that page - great if you've got it but I would advise finding other areas where your contributions won't be deleted by the faithful. They are not bad guys (personally the ones I've worked with I have a lot of respect for) but they really think you are wrong and that's a hard step to overcome. It's also why alot of people recognise that the wiki process is fundamentally flawed on sensitive subject such as this. Hope you are managing to contribute sucessfully in other areas. Sophia 07:32, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Have fun then - the advantage of Pagels is that she is a respected academic - Thompson is a little less well known but he ticks all the right boxes for a qualified religious/biblical scholar. Sophia 16:05, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am well known on that page don't worry! Some of the editors there are very knowledgeable so you need references and a good knowledge of all the current academic players to be taken seriously. I've dropped out at the moment due to other reasons (the wikipedia hierarchy sucks) but I also don't have the time to format all the current research to back up the view that the historicity of Jesus is an assumption aggressively pushed by the Church and not a fact. More books are being published all the time so I'm hoping more people like you will come along and make it easier to show the others that the status quo is changing. One piece of advice to heed is that you will find the arguments and requirements demanded by the faithful change as you fulfill previous ones. This is extremely frustrating and time consuming so i would try building on the Pagels/Thompson tips I have given you, as I have had it conceded by some of the editors that you are currently dealing with that Pagels is a respectable qualified biblical scholar. It gives you a start anyway. I will drop in and say a brief message of support but I'm teacher training at the moment so the intricacies of teaching algebra to 12 year olds is higher priority right now. Sophia 09:16, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re:

Glad I could help JT, and though I don't know exactly what I said to inspire the confidence, I do appreciate the kind words. Cheers. Lostcaesar 10:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)