Talk:John Stevens, Baron Stevens of Kirkwhelpington

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There is a useful biography of John Stevens at the London Metropolitan Police site: http://www.met.police.uk/about/stevens.htm

[edit] Is Stevens a freemason ?

anyone know ?

He mentions in his autobiography that he "wasn't" a freemason when some of his team were. Not sure what to make of that. ;) It's a good read, by the way.

[edit] Lord Stevens

He is often called "Lord Stevens" and sometimes "Sir Stevens" - can references explaining this (I think Barons can also be called Lord and Sir) be placed in the article, please. Thanks. Carcharoth 15:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

No, I am afraid it is incorrect for Barons, or any peers above that rank, to be called "Sir". It is a fairly vulgar mistake to use the prefix of a knight ["Sir"] to punctuate the surname. It is always the first name and second name that formulates the title. John Stevens was made a Knight Bachelor, and his legal name then became "Sir John Stevens." He was elevated to the peerage as a life baron in 2005, and then became Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington," which can justifiably be shortened, for efficacy, to "Lord Stevens" but never "Lord John Stevens".

If you were addressing him whilst still a knight, or making reference to him you would call him "Sir John", but whilst a Baron, you would say "Lord Stevens of Kirkwhelpington" or more likely "Lord Stevens."

To become a peer means all previously acquired honorific prefixes [such as Sir or Dame] take secondary precedence to one's noble title, and he would not therefore be Sir John Stevens, Lord Stephens of Kirkwhelpington" - the inclusion of post nominals letters will signify these previously acquired distinctions. This rule does not however carry over to some offices, such as Field Marshall, or Admiral of the Fleet, or Professorial distinctions, for example Professor The Earl Russel; doctorates are typically are not included, although there is the interesting exception of Dr The Lord Gilbert, a Labour life peer, who uses that style.--Jason Hughes 17:56, 19 June 2006 (UTC)