Talk:John Robson

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In case it is of use, an image of the person's tombstone at Ross Bay Cemetery is available at commons.wikimedia. KenWalker | Talk 16:09, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I did some revisions today, added a pic. I still need to polish it up a little, which I'll do over the next day or so. Fishhead64 03:21, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Did some small edits. But:

However, he also moved a motion to deny the vote to Chinese and First Nations peoples, but supported the right of employers to hire Chinese labour

Deal is, ALL politicians of the era moved such motions; Robson was controversial because he supported the importation of Chinese labour (unlike most other politicians, who were virulently hostile to Onderdonk and his ilk). cf. Joseph (?) Morton "In The Sea Of Sterile Mountains: The Chinese in British Columbia", which despite its title is more about Robson, Shakespeare, Bunster, and all the rest of that fascinating cast; has a great rundown on Joseph Martin's political fiascos in it too.Skookum1 15:13, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Skookum! I left that in from the former edit. I didn't have time to work much on the section concerning his political career. Hopefully I will over the weekend. My own sentiments mirror your own, I think - official racism and xenophobia were so endemic to nineteenth century BC politics as to be unremarkable. I think something along the lines of what you suggest would be a good amendment to the article. Fishhead64 17:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

official racism and xenophobia were so endemic to nineteenth century BC politics as to be unremarkable This is a truism about ALL governments of that era - German, Japanese, Saudi, Swedish even - but the Chinese imperial regime, especially before the Opium Wars and of course through the Boxer Rebellion and since; but of course you can only tar and feather white people, right? Yup; sorry for the bitterness (only because you're a priest or I wouldn't be sorry at all; I've gotten sick of the anti-racist cant that's become public pablum in recent years; "crying wolf" by a pack of unrepetant wolves who don't even masking their own ethnic prejudices). Reality is, as I've begun to assess without parroting the official-line pronouncements of the academics in our oh-so-correct universities, is that "racism and xenophobia" were NOT the motive behind anti-Chinese politics; unless in the same breath it can be admitted that anti-nonChinese laws in China were also racist and xenophobic. The early politicians were trying to protect THEIR culture, which as those of us who have read up on the period know, was hanging by a thread until well after the railway got built; a few dozen voters in most ridings, only a few hundred in the largest. The book I cited comments that among the terms BC wanted from Ottawa, and London, was a guarantee of increased immigration from Scotland, Wales and Ireland for workers to build the rail line; the CPR blocked that on cost reasons, Ottawa was not interested (because the CPR told them not to be), and BC was never near the top of London's settlement priorities (Vancouver had recommended the Puget Sound-Georgia Strait region for the site of what was to become the Australian transplantation colonies; the idea was shelved and forgotten because of the Napoleonic Wars).

So anyway, the reality was Chinese gardens DID stink (night soils), the Chinese did create their own separate sub-economy and did not contribute much in taxes because of their lifestyle (since there were no income taxes yet) etc; a lot of things that post-modern historians rant on as being examples of "racism and xenophobia" were actually just cultural differences and truisms of the age; and as noted in Morton if a Chinaman (sic) had a lot of money, he was socially acceptable in Victoria's high society gatherings. NB if a low-class white Victorian couldn't get into such gatherings, why is it "racist and xenophobic" that a low-class Chinese is similarly excluded? Nope, it's about the benjamins. I can rant on about this at length - read Morton and you'll get an idea - and I slam Bowering and Barman right and left for the pap opinions that are throughout their work (as well as Barman's various historical and geographical gaffes, which are endless; the latest one to choke me is "Kanaka Ranch", as apparently now rancherie is a "racist" term, not p.c. anyway, even though natives and whites alike continue to use it, without a derogatory sense, throughout the Interior).

That's all for now; but I had to let go my rant about the "racism and xenophobia" theme fashionable in BC historiography. As far as I'm concerned, that's NPOV stuff and I'll wade in whenever I see it or anything like it; similarly someone had repeatedly substituted "concentration camp" for "internment camps and relocation centres" (re WWII Japanese-Canadians), and said "well, that's what these were - concentration camps". With gas ovens, firing squads and soap factories, one supposes; overuse of maudlin language is a crime against history and one of the cardinals sins of modern academic instruction, and of journalistic stylebooks. As I rejoindered the person who insisted on "concentration camps", my "aunt" (my brother's godmother) was Malay Dutch and had been imprisoned by the Japanese in Indonesia during the war; she saw rape, brutal beatings, killings, slave labour, and wanton cruelty. I've also met Auschwitz survivors and people who endured the recent "Bosnian holocaust", and although I've never met John McCain I've met others who shared similar experiences; but somehow the education the self-righteous are getting these days manages to equate Tashme, New Denver, and Minto City with those horrors of horrors. This is a far tangent from the "racist and xenophobic" counter-argument, but much in the same context; in BC historiography in particular such words are, to me, sensitive and should only be used when the wolf is real; and especially not when a wolf is using them.Skookum1 07:07, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mount Robson

The main article states that "Mount Robson, on the border between British Columbia and Alberta, is not named for him, but rather for a Chief Factor of the Hudson's Bay Company." I'd like to know where this information came from. I've researched this quite a bit (note my last name), including making a trip to the Mt. Robson visitor's center, and every source I've found says that the source of the name is "undetermined." I think it's reasonable to say that the mountain is "probably not named for John Robson," but the way this article is phrased doesn't seem justified. Gary D Robson 21:48, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

from the Canadian Mountain Encylopedia's entry on Mt Robson: ::Mount Robson is believed to have been casually named after a mis-pronunciation of Colin Robertson, a guide for the North West Company in the early 1800's. The first written reference to the name is by George McDougall, a fur trader, in his diary of 1827.

1827 is a LONG time before the premiership of John Robson, needless to say; I don't know if Colin Robertson was a Chief Factor; the CME says he was a guide; in 1827 that would have been Simpson, I think; maybe he was promoted later; but Robertson-Robson is apparently the source, and certainly not the Premier; the name already existed by the time he moved to British Columbia.Skookum1 00:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I was aware of the bivouac.com reference, but left intact the attribution when I substantially revised this article. I have not been able to substantiate it, either, so I will remove it. One thing upon which I think everyone agrees is that Mt. Robson was definitely not named for The Hon. John Robson (pace the McDougall reference), as is often popularly assumed. Fishhead64 00:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm comfortable with the change. I wasn't trying to say that it was named for John Robson. I was just saying that the actual namesake is not certain. Any particular reason for not naming Robertson in the article? Gary D Robson 01:58, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I didn't name him just because he's non-notable, and the attribution is basically speculative, anyway. So are you related to John Robson? I know he and his brother both married and had children. Fishhead64 05:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think so. My family emigrated from Scotland to Upper Canada very close to where John Robson was born right around the same time his family did. It wasn't a very common last name in Canada at the time. I haven't connected the families in Scotland, though. Gary D Robson 13:33, 7 April 2006 (UTC)