Talk:Joachim von Ribbentrop

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Rienzo, why did you change my style fixes? Can you find a featured article that looks like that? That's not convention on the en wikipedia. Everyking 00:28, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Is it really convention to put birth and death year between ( ) ? Rienzo 02:26, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Does this:

Ribbentrop told Hitler what wanted Hitler to hear about what was happening abroad.

...mean what Ribbentrop wanted Hitler to hear, or that Ribbentrop told Hitler what Hitler wanted to hear? Everyking 04:33, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Both. Ribbentrop told Hitler what Hitler wanted to hear such as his report in November 1934 that the vast majority of the British people and elite were desperate for an alliance with Germany and understood and supported Nazism. Ribbentrop also used these reports to enhance his position with Hitler since the regular diplomats of the German Foreign Office sent back reports saying that many people abroad were scared of what was happening in Germany, something that Hitler did not want to hear. Ribbentrop argued that the regular diplomats were cowards, fools, and reactionaries who were dead wrong in their assessment of Ausland (literally Outland; German for world outside Germany). By contrast, Ribbentrop argued that he really understood what people in Ausland were thinking of Germany. In 1935, when Ribbentrop was send to London to negotiate the Anglo-German Naval Agreement (A.G.N.A), Neurath predicated failure; indeed Neurath had Ribbentrop appointed to head the German delegation out of the hope that Ribbentrop's failure would discredit his rival in Hitler's eyes. Ribbentrop's success with bringing about the A.G.N.A did much to lower Neurath's prestige with Hitler, and lend credence towards what Ribbentrop was saying about British public opinion.

Ribbentrop claimed that if the Anglo-German alliance had not emerged, it was because the regular diplomats were not pressing hard enough for it. Later, when Ribbentrop himself was Ambassador, he first blamed Jewish machinations for his failure (he claimed that abdication of King Edward VIII in 1936 was an Jewish plot to derail the projected Anglo-German alliance). Of course, all this talk of Jewish plots against Germany was nonsense.

Then Ribbentrop argued from late 1937 onwards, that it was not possible for an alliance because the British were Germany's eternal enemies who one could never an achive alliance with. Thus, in 1938, when Prime Minister Chamberlain went out of his way to appease Germany, the Anglophobic Ribbentrop was arguing was that Chamberlain was being totally unreasonable and that his appeasement policy was some sort of trick to sucker Germany. Fortunately for Ribbentrop, Hitler was thinking along similar lines in 1937-39, and so Ribbentrop's words were music for Hitler's ears. However, one should not over-rate Ribbentrop's influence. Hitler always made the major decisions about foreign policy, and at most Ribbentrop was preaching to the converted with his reports. When Ribbentrop realized that his repors were out of tune with Hitler, he quickly changed them. Ribbentrop was opposed to the attack on the Soviet Union in 1941, but when it became clear that Hitler was dead-set on the invasion, Ribbentrop promptly did an U-turn and became the invasion's champion. At most, Ribbentrop was Hitler's preferred executor of his foreign policy. Ribbentrop's unhealthy emotional dependence on Hitler precluded him from every serious differing from Hitler.

Contents 1 Psychosomatic Illnesses? 2 Last Words 3 ribbentrop's execution 4 Trial and execution 5 A Royal Affair? 6 Introduction 7 Some Minor Errors

[edit] Psychosomatic Illnesses?

There seems to be a constant need amongst many to portray every National Socialist figure as depraved, emotionally disturbed, or consumed with some kind of freudian psychosis. This is an encyclopedia. There is no evidence what so ever that this man suffered from "psychosomatic illnesses" when Hitler was unhappy. We don't even have definitive, objective definitions of psychosomatic illnesses, let alone objective evidence of Hitler's state of mind. Such statements look like smear tactics. There is obviously much to criticize about the Nazi hierarchy, but lets keep it to the facts.

Much of the above talk is highly subjective, with minimal historical evidence. It reads like so post-modernist authorial intent diatribe.

Actually, the Ribbentrop interview in Goldensohn's "The Nuremburg Interviews" hints that Ribbentrop was indeed generally preoccupied with his health, particularly his own sanity. E.g.: "[Ribbentrop] said that he wanted my frank opinion as to whether he had some disease of the brain or not. He repeated his oft-phrased opinion that there was something the matter with his vagus nerve..."; "He wondered ... whether he was developing the same type of mental weakness that Hess had"; he didn't go to court because "...he felt weak and had a headache"; he asks Goldensohn, "'Do you think perhaps I have a tumor up here?' [Goldensohn responds] it was doubtful and unlikely, since ... there were no other neurological manifestations"; "[Ribbentrop] seemed quite obsessed with [the false concept that venereal disease caused tumors]". Primaryspace 17:06, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Last Words

There is a discrepancy between this article's account of his last words and the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famous_last_words list.

Here is Ribbentrop's complete last statement: "God protect Germany. God have mercy on my soul. My final wish is that Germany should recover her unity and that, for the sake of peace, there should be understanding between East and West." (Source: Ribbentrop, by Michael Bloch, pp. 498) --Cormac Canales 16:31, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ribbentrop's execution

streicher's execution was botched - not that of the former foreign minister who was hanged minutes before keitel. a short interval occurred between each hanging in tandem of about 10 minutes, but that of streicher was the only one that required the intervention of the hangman (presumably to pull down on the victim's legs to expedite the procedure, as with, say, a typical austrian 'short-drop' execution - of which, incidentally, ribbentrop's government had ordered thousands). the hangings were witnessed and filmed.

[edit] Trial and execution

The article states that Ribbentrop was found guilty on all charges. The article doesn't state what those charges were. Could someone elaborate on what charges that were? --Citral 11:06, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A Royal Affair?

Could I please have some clarification on this point. The section begins by saying that many members of the British upper classes believed that Ribbentrop was having an affair with Wallis Simpson, and then goes on to mention US intelligence reports; but there seems to be no logical connection between the two. What do thsee reports actually say? Intelligence gathering of this kind can depend of small talk and malicious tittle-tattle. This is quite different, though, from saying that the alleged relationship was an established scandal. We have to be absolutely clear about statements of this kind, before rumour and gossip are turned into accepted fact. White Guard 02:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

While Ribbentrop is certainly pretty well-known, and the years given do imply it fairly strongly, it kind of bugs me that there is no direct reference in the introduction to the Nazi party or World War II. I'm a big fan of context. LordAmeth 00:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some Minor Errors

Under the section on Ribentrop's role in the Nuremberg Trials, Goering is cited as saying that Ribbentrop should be hanged for his stupidity. This is an error. The true author of that remark was Hjalmar Schacht, another defendant. From Airey Neave's book on Nuremberg we have (p.83):

• In 1945, most people of my age would have been well aware of this frightened man who stood before me. many would have enjoyed my position. Ribbentrop had for years been the butt of British newspapers and comic songs. He was particularly hated by diplomats and foreign correspondents. His allies were not polite. Mussolini told Ciano, the Italian Foreign Minister, that Ribbentrop was "truly sinister because he is an imbecile and presumptuous". Schacht, the banker, the most arrogant man of all at Nuremberg, told Dr Gilbert: "Even Ribbentrop should be hung for his stupidity: there is no crime worse than stupidity".

A similar scathing attack on Ribbentrop DID, however, emanate from Goering - the following passage from the same book (p. 82) is illustrative of this:

• Today, I realise that Ribbentrop was a second-rate opportunist. He was more intelligent and less hysterical than Hess, but he had no standing in international affairs. Dr Gilbert has written an interesting account of a conversation he had with Goering in his cell on November 11th, 1945.
  • "Ribbentrop", said Goering, "was a boundless egotist ... he has neither the background nor the tct for diplomacy. I tried to advise Hitler to remove him for two reasons. First of all, he was persona non grata with the British and even Hitler wanted to keep on good terms with the British ... When he was presented to the King, he greeted him with the Heil Hitler salute, which the British, of course, regarded as an insult to the Crown. I was even able to make Hitler see that point. Suppose Russia sent a good-will ambassador to you", I said, "and greeted you with 'Long live the Communust Revolution!' Ha, ha ha ha!" Here, Goering raised his fist in the Communist salute and laughed heartily.

Later in the book, Neave goes on to outline, among other things, Ribbentrop's continued applications to have assorted titled persons and other figures from high society testify at Nuremberg upon his behalf, this being the subject of considerable amusement among the staff at Nuremberg, particularly when he applied, for example, for Lady Astor and King George VI to give evidence on his 'desire for peace' - this appears on p.230 of the Neave book, and p. 238 cites several other such applications including one for Lord Vansittart, who must surely have regarded Ribbentrop as the lowest form of political dilettante in foreign affairs - how interesting it would have been had that application been accepted and Vansittart had indeed stated in open court precisely what professional diplomats truly thought of Ribbentrop! However, that must remain but tantalising and amusing speculation. However, the above passages (which cross reference with writings from other persons who worked alongside Neave at Nuremberg, including the cited Dr Gilbert) contain sufficient to allow me to make a couple of edits ... agreed? Calilasseia 14:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)