Talk:Jibe

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Italic text== Renamed Gybe -> Jibe ==

Google and wiktionary have jibe as the primary spelling, and since the old Jibe page was deleted (rightly so, it was no more than a definition) there was no good place to tell someone coming to the subject using Jibe that there were other meanings of the word. Accordingly, I moved Gybe to Jibe, fixed links pointing at Gybe (leaving along the source article's primary spelling of the word), and provided the redirect explanation on the Gybe as well as the sentence on this one pointing users to Wiktionary for other definitions. I also cleaned up one or two items of the article text. Demi 19:58, 2005 Mar 6 (UTC)

I've created a disambiguation page for Gybe since it references two different subjects, and have removed the redirect to Jibe. -Harmonica 06:20, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I believe that gybe is the correct nautical spelling for this term. I'm not certain that Wiktionary and Google can be considered authoritative sources for sailing terms? I would like to investigate this further. Anyone object then better talk to me. - --Julianp 12:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

"Correct spelling" is a very tenuous concept for a term this old. For example, what's the correct spelling of Shakespeare? Even he couldn't decide. Stable spellings weren't really common in English until Samual Johnson's 1755 A Dictionary of the English Language for British spellings, and Webster's Dictionary for American spellings. Since there is no authoritative source (unless we can find the originals of those dictionaries, maybe at Project Gutenburg?), and since both versions are in the dictionary, the only way to decide is to pick the more common. While a Google search may not be an academically rigorous analysis of word frequencies, it is a pretty fair indicator. Searching on (jibe mainsail) and (gybe mainsail)--adding "mainsail" to ensure sailing related hits--jibe shows a small edge, 1820 to 1740 hits. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I can come up with a way to differentiate British from American sources (maybe search for "color" vs "colour" or the like? would there be enough hits to be statistically significant?) so I'm not prepared to say the terms are more strongly associated with a given dialect of English. scot 14:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Standard US spelling is jibe; standard British spelling is gybe. Don't know about Australia, NZ etc. But both spellings are in both American and British dictionaries. Seems to me it's not very important which is the "primary" spelling in Wikipedia, as long as both lead to the same article. (Though I too would prefer to see it spelt gybe!) Snalwibma 12:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a source that states the preferred spelling in British vs. American usage? If so, then we should include that in the article. scot 14:26, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Source? yes - pick any standard dictionary - e.g. Websters for US spelling, Collins for GB spelling. But do these really need citing? There is a worrying trend towards over-referencing in Wikipedia at present. We do NOT need to cite a source for something that is instantly verifiable in the obvious reference work! Gnusmas 14:59, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't have a British dictionary handy, so I'll take your word for it. I just cleaned up some bad links to running and went ahead and added a short section on spelling. scot 16:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I have found plenty of references to 'gybe' in nautical and sailing texts. Also a quick investigation shows that the etymological derivation of the word implies that gybe is the more appropriate spelling (the word comes from the Dutch word gijben). Furthermore 'gybe' is the spelling commonly used in Australia and I believe New Zealand. This is English language encyclopaedia and these things do matter --Julianp 11:22, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[enough of these in-in-in-indents!] The standard American dictionary (Webster) gives jibe as the primary spelling and gybe as a variant, while the British dictionaries (Collins, Oxford, Chambers) do the reverse. I wouldn't be surprised to be told, however, that within sailing circles (or do I mean "when sailing in circles"?) gybe is the commoner spelling on both sides of the Atlantic (I notice that Dennis Conner uses gybe in one of his books, for example). Personally, I much prefer gybe. So, unless anyone objects, I would propose the following:

1. move Gybe to Gybe (disambiguation).
2. move Jibe to Gybe.
3. add tag "Otherusesof|Gybe" at the top of Gybe.
4. edit Gybe so that gybe is the primary spelling, with jibe mentioned as a (chiefly U.S.) variant.
5. amend the "sailing manoeuvres" box and check for other pages which link to jibe.

I'd say leave it sit for a few days to see if anyone objects, and then (assuming no one does) do it. Gnusmas 12:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

While I don't see that there's a compelling reason to move it, since it is primarily a regional spelling issue and the article isn't particular to one region, I do see one tiny thing you left out that might argue for a move. Jibe is a homonym, and therefore has two completely different meanings depending on context. Gybe, while it is a homophone, is not a homonym, and therefore is less ambiguous, at least in writing. So as long as you're willing to do all the grunt work (that's a lot of editing), I'll agree to the proposal. scot 14:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

I support moving it. Snalwibma 17:53, 4 October 2006 (UTC)