Talk:Jesse Helms
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I believe that a section on Senator Helms's alleged racism is warrented.
- Do you have sources supporting that he is racist? Or sources that say that many think he is racist? --Spangineer (háblame) 11:05, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
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- I didn't write the original comment, but how about this "Race was a frequent backdrop in Helms' public life. In 1950, U.S. Sen. Frank Porter Graham faced fellow Democrat Willis Smith in a hotly contested runoff. Helms supported Smith, whose supporters were accused of using racial smears. A handbill purported to show a photo of Graham's wife dancing with a black man. Smith won, and Helms was often accused of having a role in the tactics... Charges of racial politics arose again in 1990 when Helms faced former Charlotte Mayor Harvey Gantt. One Helms ad showed a pair of white hands crumpling a job rejection letter as a voice says, "You needed that job, but they had to give it to a minority." --DoorFrame
- Looks convincing to me. I'm not too familiar with this senator, so I was initially a bit skeptical, especially with the kind of edits this page has been getting over the past day or so (i.e. lots of vandalism). But sounds like there's some good references to support that he was indeed quite racist. --Spangineer (háblame) 22:43, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
- Can anyone say strawman conversation? This is ridiculous. Mike 22:05, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
- There's not a shred of evidence that he was racist or segregationist, ever. 71.70.174.75 15:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
- Can anyone say strawman conversation? This is ridiculous. Mike 22:05, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
- Looks convincing to me. I'm not too familiar with this senator, so I was initially a bit skeptical, especially with the kind of edits this page has been getting over the past day or so (i.e. lots of vandalism). But sounds like there's some good references to support that he was indeed quite racist. --Spangineer (háblame) 22:43, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)
- I didn't write the original comment, but how about this "Race was a frequent backdrop in Helms' public life. In 1950, U.S. Sen. Frank Porter Graham faced fellow Democrat Willis Smith in a hotly contested runoff. Helms supported Smith, whose supporters were accused of using racial smears. A handbill purported to show a photo of Graham's wife dancing with a black man. Smith won, and Helms was often accused of having a role in the tactics... Charges of racial politics arose again in 1990 when Helms faced former Charlotte Mayor Harvey Gantt. One Helms ad showed a pair of white hands crumpling a job rejection letter as a voice says, "You needed that job, but they had to give it to a minority." --DoorFrame
- Where are you from and how old are you, anonymous? I can't point to a website that has archives, but anyone from NC who has been around a while will tell you in no uncertain terms that Mr. Helms spent the 60s editorializing on WRAL-TV against blacks and for segregation. I'm sure the evidence is in the archives at WRAL, and I'm willing to walk away from WP forever if you can prove me wrong. You willing to do the same? -Jcbarr 19:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] NPOV
What about this senator's wild attacks against art and artistic critical thinking? This senator was a censor and an ennemy of democracy in his crusade against the arts, not far from the infamous Mac Carthy. This article is not encyclopedic, it is a hagiography. I guess it is being controlled by Americans, and furthermore by American Conservatives... See Steven Dubin, Arresting images, Routledge, 1992, if you want to correct this grossly inappropriate Wikipedia article!
There are other parts to Helms's career than his racism - arts policy and relations with the UN come to mind. His Wikipedia article shouldn't be merely a collection of anecdotes about how he doesn't like black people. That shortchanges readers on both sides of the aisle. --Saucy Intruder (talk) 13:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
- On the other hand, Helms is perhaps most famous for his most controversial remarks. No doubt why so many of them show up here. I'm sure his statements on the arts and the UN are a bit more boring. Beanbatch 17:08, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
- Maybe so, but who are we to decide it's not worthy information for an encyclopedia? We don't only include what is flashy or controversial! At least, I hope we don't... Zanturaeon 11:12, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
- We DO get decide what is worthy, this is Wiki! We could just say "Jesse was a senator" and be done. But any encyclopedia focuses on why someone is famous (or infamous). There are lots of senators. There are not many Jesse Helmses. What makes him different and interesting? Mainly the controversial stuff. We should not shy away from documented facts, even if they are ugly. We should neither engage in hostile POVs, as some of this article does. I see nothing wrong with including documented quotes from the senator himself. Folks added these to back up their racist claims with facts. Beanbatch 17:38, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
- Beanbatch has a very good point I think. To not point out his racism would be like ignoring the elephant in the room. H.P. Lovecraft was racist, and there's even information about that on his wiki. Roint 04:52, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
- We DO get decide what is worthy, this is Wiki! We could just say "Jesse was a senator" and be done. But any encyclopedia focuses on why someone is famous (or infamous). There are lots of senators. There are not many Jesse Helmses. What makes him different and interesting? Mainly the controversial stuff. We should not shy away from documented facts, even if they are ugly. We should neither engage in hostile POVs, as some of this article does. I see nothing wrong with including documented quotes from the senator himself. Folks added these to back up their racist claims with facts. Beanbatch 17:38, 24 August 2005 (UTC)
- Maybe so, but who are we to decide it's not worthy information for an encyclopedia? We don't only include what is flashy or controversial! At least, I hope we don't... Zanturaeon 11:12, August 24, 2005 (UTC)
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- To not point out his racism would be simply honest. There's not a shred of evidence that Helms was ever racist or segregationist.
- Nor was he ever against the arts. In fact, he was a longtime patron of the arts, for example with his very generous support for WCPE Raleigh (an excellent classical music station). He opposed government-supported porn, not art. To pretend otherwise is to blatantly misrepresent him.
- I deleted the link to this rediculous Barry Yoeman smear piece: http://www.barryyeoman.com/articles/whitewashed.html which says that Helms "had his fingers in everything from black-voter intimidation to a veiled threat against President Clinton's life." Of course he did no such thing, ever, and that sort of smear has no place in Wikipedia, even as a link. 71.70.174.75 15:14, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Invading Geneva
I just noticed this on a discussion board somewhere:
- Actually I do believe US senator Jesse Helms called for as much recently. I believe during the whole "Americans should not be subject to trials at the world court for war crimes but we don't mind if brown people are put on trial" debate, Helms demanded congress pass a law that basically said if an American was ever put on trial before the world court, it would automatically trigger a law compelling the US government to invade The Hague.
Is there a source for this?
[edit] Quotes, etc.
I think that anything attributed to the Senator as a quote must be documented by a verifiable source. This business about racism is interesting, but much appears to be politically motivated. Obviously there are different perspectives on this man and we should strive for objectivity.
Questionable sources are not acceptable either.
These certainly should be cited:
...as his "humorous" habit of calling all black people "Fred." Helms' seemingly nostalgic remembrances of segregation also led many to call him racist.
These editorials are often cited as proof that Helms is prejudiced. For example, in one he calls the University of North Carolina the "University of Negroes and Communists."
Beyond the matter of proper citations, the article is peppered with many NPOV flags like "many have said" or "some say." Who said what? When did they say it? Where and when was it reported?
[edit] Views on AIDS in Africa
Perhaps someone could contribute to his views on AIDS in Africa. He was monumental in refusing AIDS prevention measures citing that it was due to immorality. He then partered up with Bono for a bill to increase AID to Africa
[edit] dead or alive?
the article gives the date dec 3, 2006 for mr. helms death and then says "WAS a former...."
- Since he has dementia, heart disease, a bone disorder and prostate cancer he isn't really alive any more.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.93.21.74 (talk • contribs).
