User talk:Jergen

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[edit] Scouting barnstar

I, Rlevse, award this Scouting Barnstar to Jergen for his great contributions to Scouting related articles, especially in the area of non-English speaking countries.

Rlevse 23:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Common design for templates

Brother, you always have good ideas, what do you have in mind? --Chris 11:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

ps-do you know how to grab graphics from a PDF file? I need the lower one from Welcome to Guiding in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut

That was an easy one Image:Wagggs-ggc-ntnu.png. You can grab images with Acrobat reader; normal setting is text but you can switch to images. --jergen 12:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, brother, I did not have appropriate software. Next idea, since there are articles for multiple Scout associations in Germany, Denmark... what about NORS and ORYuR for Russia? Chris 17:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, that's one thing I'd really like to do - unfortunately I don't understand Russian so I can't contribute much content on these organizations. But there is some hope: We will have some Russian guests (RAS/N as far as I know) at our national jamboree starting August 3rd. At least one of them should speak German and we should also have some translators (also Scouts but from a different German association).
But this may take some time; back home from the jamboree I'll move away from K-Town to Worms. --jergen 18:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What do you think of Scouting now? Is it GA?

Randy has done a lot to it, imho improving it enough for GA. A lot of more work needs to be done before it can be A-Class (or FA) yet, but several important steps are done. Would you please respond on Talk:Scouting? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Happy holidays

Hope you're having fun, brother, we miss you! Chris 00:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please rename the Belgian scouts article

See also Talk:Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique

Please change the name of this article to The Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium instead of giving it the French name. The national Movement in Belgium officially has 3!!! names and not just the French one. Maybe we should use the English name (since this is the English wikipedia) or rename it Scouting in Belgium. Jorgenpfhartogs 06:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Strong oppose: The French version of the name is the most commonly used version (also by both WOSM and WAGGGS); if you search via Google (name -wikipedia) you get these results:
french: 13.100 [1]
flemish: 45 [2]
english: 2 [3]
Question: Which is the third official name? Is there a German version? I don't think that Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium is an official version defined in the bylaws of the organization; IMO it's nothing but an translation for international visitors.
I don't think that anybody would search for these very uncommon versions of the name, but for all eventuallities they should redirect to Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique. --jergen 08:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


I still very, very strongly disagree. First of all, you looked on the German google. The Belgian google gives a different picture.

French: 16.800 (but comes up with the Flemish name first (!))

[4]

Flemish: 857 (but ONLY gives you the Flemish pages)

[5]

English: 23.800!!! (AND comes up with the English version first!!!!)

[6]

Other facts:

There are more Flemish people in Belgium than Francophones and German Speakers. (58%)
There are more scouts in the Flemish organisations than in the Walloon ones.
For the FOS: The girls in Scouts en Gidsen Vlaanderen were a part of the Nederlandse Gidsenbeweging or Nederlandse gidsen (from 1957 onwards )until 1973 when Scouting Nederland was established.
For the FOS: The boys in Scouts en Gidsen Vlaanderen were a part of the Katholieke Verkenners until 1973 when Scouting Nederland was established.
The first groups in Belgium were part of the Belgian Catholic Scouts.
The non-Catholic scouts were united in the Boyscouts de Belgique.
In 1912 the Belgian Catholic Scouts became the Baden-Powell Belgian Boy Scouts.
When going to [www.scouts.be www.scouts.be] you'll see they call themselves Guides and Scouts and Belgium and The Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium!!!


The Germanic scouts are normally seen as a part of the Walloon organisations (the Oostkantons are their own Gewest, but, with a huge influx of Walloons, is normally seen as part of the Francophone Gewest. The normally call themselves Pfadfinder Belgien. There are only a few groups in Belgium that are fully German. A few of them are part of the Flemish movement, a few of them are part of the Francophone movement and a few of them are even part of the German movement.

A lot of ignorant people that don't know Belgium think it is a French-speaking country since most Flemish speak French and most Walloons DON't speak Flemish. Brussel is supposedly a bilingual city (in Flemish territory!), but has a huge influx of Walloons. The fact is that Dutch is spoken by the 6 million people in Flanders to the north, French by the 3.5 million Walloons in the south!!!

More so: most English speakers will look for Scouting in Belgium rather than Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique. You have to be able to speak French to come up with this name and since the majority of people on wikipedia search in English I really, really strongly think we should DEMAND an English name for the article!!!!

Jorgenpfhartogs 15:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Jergen: as I am no expert on languages in Belguim, I support whatever you think on this one. The debate on which language to title an article in comes up often. Belguim is unique in that it has more than one language in use. Whichever isn't used should be a redirect to the other.Rlevse 16:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)
Normally I answer only once; pls see Talk:Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique --jergen 18:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS)

Hi, I've seen that you requested a translation of the german wikipedia article Sangam which I created there. I also created articles for:

I can do the requested translation if you wish. But let us made a deal. The german World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts article needs your map of the world regions, the german World Organization of the Scout Movement article too. Please load it up to the Wikipedia Commons.

Please answer on my german User talk! -- User:Manuel Heinemann 09:30, 29 August 2006 (CET +1)

Hi Chris! I've complete the translation of the german wikipedia article Sangam. Please proofread it. -- Thanks! Manuel Heinemann 22:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Jergen, do you know how to upload to the Wikipedia Commons? Chris 19:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
It's quite the same like here - but you need a separate account on commons. Commons accepts only a limited number of licences, uploading as "fair use" is not possible. For more informations see Commons:Welcome. --jergen 06:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandal

Good teamwork on Scouting's vandal. I was putting warnings on his page while you were reverting!Rlevse 13:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canada Scout Badges

I was wondering if any of you could check my edit on the page Scouts Canada Scout Badges and see if it's worth anything?

Thanks, Taykid41 16:35, 2 Sept. 2006 (UTC)

Looks good - but I can't check it's full context since my association is one of the very few who don't issue any badges. I have no experience with badge oiented Scouting. --jergen 21:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scouting

Check out the 21:39 02 Sep edits by Nixinator. I think they may be too US centric and would like your opinion. Edit as you feel appropiate, of course. Rlevse 22:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Was already reverted when I came upon it. --jergen 08:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
Yea, I saw that this am too. That means we agreed-;) Rlevse 11:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] request for help against deletionist

this guy really wants to delete my recent additions for illustration-Image:LaszlonagyU.jpg‎, Image:Laszlonagycarlgusta.jpg‎; and Image:BoyScoutsofNippon.jpg, please help me save them from him. I hate having to do this all the time. Chris 22:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moves

Hi Jergen, while your reason given for the move at Magyar Cserkészszövetség is arguably a good one – though the applicable policy says "with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity" –, I see no reason why Association of Hungarian Girl Guides should be at the Hungarian name. (The fact that web references use the Hungarian name is no argument: every organization's native name will be used more often than a translation.) Please set up a requested move if you think I'm wrong, but don't revert the move against the established convention. Thanks & happy editing, KissL 09:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scouting tireless contributor

The Scouting Tirless Contributor
The Scouting Tirless Contributor

- For over one year of countless high quality contributions to Scouting articles, especially in the international area. Rlevse 02:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image talk:--MongoliaScoutsuniform.jpg

Hi Jergen, would you weigh in on this discussion? Chris 22:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

Jergen - I changed the title of your posting on the discussion because I think it more accurately reflects the discussion. In any case, I'm sorry if my move of the Italian page has caused you consternation.

I think that the issue is pretty straightforward and that we can resolve it amicably on the talk page. --evrik 09:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

--evrik 10:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think, you did link the page on nearly all Talk pages, didn't you? --jergen 10:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I only linked the ones where you had made a comment. I was working off this list {{EuropeanScout}}, and you haven't commented on most of them. --evrik 10:51, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Václav Havel

Some anon added him to List of notable Scouts. How can this be when he'd have been of Scout age during the Nazi/Communist era? Or did the Czechs have something we consider Scouting during that time? Rlevse 17:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Scouting was allowed (and very active) during the Prague Spring, so Havel may have been Scout during these years (but he was in his thirties at this time). A second possibility: Some European Scout organizations name the acting head of state as honorary president.
Since I couldn't find any mention of Havel as a member of the movement, I'll remove him unless a source is given. The only hint of a possible membership I could get was a speech to the European Scout Conference, adressing the "sisters and brothers Scouts". --jergen 09:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


I'm that anonymous. WW2 was until 1945, after WW2 was scouting legal. Communist era started in 1948. After 1948 cummunists started to destroy scouting and replace it by Pionyr and SSM. So as a kid Vaclav Havel could be (and he was) in boy scout troop. He was in a part of boy scouts called "water scouts". I remember I saw it in some boyscout magazine after 1989 (it must be Junak because there weren't any other boyscout magazines) but you could find it in google. I also remember that when he was a presidnet he was some sort of "bodyguard" of czech scouts and I was on some "parade" in Prague where many scouts walked to Prague castle to see him.

Some links:

http://strediskohrozen.blog.cz/0609/seznam-slavnych-ceskych-skautu-a-skautek http://www.cin-centrum.cz/dejiny1_50.htm http://www.skauting.cz/prachen/jak_nas_vidi/slavni/slavni.html

Again me, the best is to search for václav havel chrobák, because chrobak was his nickname. Half of the links on the first page of google seems relevant.

[edit] Evrik is moving anyway

Please see: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Scouting/Translations#Algeria. Evrik is moving articles regardless of our discussions. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 09:21, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Not so. I would appreciate both of you being civil and stop accusing me of vandalsim, etc. --evrik (talk) 17:10, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project mediator offer

Bduke has offered to be the Scouting WikiProject mediator and accept this as his first case on these conditions: 1. All parties must agree to his mediating. 2. All parties must not move any articles until the mediation is completed. 3. If consensus is not reached they must let User:Rlevse as the project coordinator decide whether to implement my final conclusions.

(3) means that Bduke will make a final recommendation if there is no consensus and User:Rlevse can accept it or reject it. Either way, the decision is final and all parties are bound by Scout's honor to follow it.

I am posting this on everyone's (Evrik, Jergen, Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr)) talk page so they will not miss the offer. Failure to respond with a 'accept' or 'not accept' on the Translations talk page will be taken as an 'accept'. This offer will last until 2400 UTC Dec 2, 2006. Keep in mind that we live all over the world and users need time to respond---specifically, Bduke lives in Australia. DO NOT make any moves until at least 24 hours have passed since his last posting on an issue. Rlevse 01:52, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trefoil

Take all the time you need, brother, and thank you for the headsup. I have put info I can find into talk pages to be folded into articles. Chris 20:12, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guiding categories

I replied to your comment on my talk page before I looked at my watchlist and saw you had removed the Guiding cat from a lot of articles as a parent. Maybe you are right. I prefer to see what others think. So for now WAGGGS members go in that category which has the Guiding cat as a parent and everything else Guiding go in the Guiding cat. Is that your thinking? --Bduke 02:05, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Category:Guiding hasn't been edited since July, Category:Scouting not since Sep and Category:WAGGGS member organizations not since early Oct. This appears not to be a recent change. Rlevse 03:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I've looked at this to see what your guys are talking about. What's odd is that WAGGGS is both on the same level as Guiding (both as a sub of Scouting, as is WOSM) and also a sub of Guiding. If we make WAGGGS only a sub of Guiding, some GG/GS may say why isn't WAGGGS at the same level as WOSM? I have a suggestion that I think will meet both your concerns and also follow wiki policy on categories: Put WAGGGS, WOSM, and the non-aligned cat all under "Scouting related associations" and put WAGGGS under Guiding also. Thoughts? I've put this on both your talk pages. Rlevse 12:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I was on the same way of thought: Starting a Category:Scouting organizations with subcategories on WOSM, WAGGGS, non-aligned and insular organizations.
But our categories' system needs some more work: There are too many project categories on top level. --jergen 12:51, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
We already have "Scouting related associations", I suggest using that one as it means about the same thing as "Scouting organizations". I'm neutral right now on moving the project cats out. Rlevse 12:55, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Agree now on project articles. I'll move them to the already-existing Wikiproject Scouting cat. Rlevse 13:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
"Scouting related associations" covers something I'd call "secondary organizations" who support the movement but are not necessarily a part of it. That's not quite the thing I had in mind for the "real" associations.
I propose the following future structure for the organizations/associations' categories:
  • Category:Scouting organizations
Further on we should find a way to bundle all/most Scouting biographies in one category; at the moment they are distributed all over the place. --jergen 13:17, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, your idea is even better. I'll do this right away or do you think we should put it on that project talk page first? Rlevse 13:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Be bold. This can be reverted easily if somebode objects. --jergen 13:22, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
With one tweak, International Scouting should be under Scouting by country, it should be under Scouting and then all that other structure you came up with under that. That OK? Rlevse 13:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Try it. In my eyes International Scouting is also part of Scouting by country, but its organizations should somehow have a connection to the organizations' category. --jergen 13:39, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll see what I can come up with. Rlevse 13:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
I'll check it later on. For the next hours I'll be off. --jergen 13:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
See my sandbox, User:Rlevse/sandbox, with this structure I'm OK with International Scouting also as a sub of Scouting by country. Rlevse 14:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mediator

If you won't agree to Bduke, there's a wiki mediator who's an occassional project participant, User:Markovich292. I also know a wiki admin in the MILHIST project who I think would also do a good job-User:ERcheck. Let me know who you'd agree to that the others may agree too. Rlevse 19:37, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scouting FAC question

I'm asking you this because I think you wrote these parts. See the FAC for Scouting. There's a question about what are now footnotes 51-54 (Includes ####...) and that the ref'd articles don't have valid refs for the numbers. Can you add footnotes to both Scouting and the country articles or tell me what the refs are and I'll add them? Thanks. Rlevse 16:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Saw your note on the FAC page. Please do what you can otherwise, we'll at least have to remove the footnotes and maybe even the numbers from the count on the page for whatever country. For refs you find, we can put them in Scouting and the country articles. Since you have the counts in the country articles, I'd suspect sources are available as the counts had to come from somewhere. Truly appreciate all help. Rlevse 19:46, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I started with Germany and hope this is sufficient. Please fee free to format these sources since I'm not used to the complicated system used on the English Wikipedia. --jergen 20:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
France also done. --jergen 21:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks. Hopefully you can find the others. Rlevse 21:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Saw you found Italian ones too. Only Belgium and Poland left now. Rlevse 03:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Belgium done. --jergen 09:49, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Poland done. --jergen 10:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks, but while I see why you removed some of the refs I put in the membership chart (duped from the Scouting in... articles), some clearly had membership info. I'll mull over what to do with it. THanks too for finding a way to separate the notes. Rlevse 11:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I removed these references because they refferd only to one of the associations - and all these countries have more than one/two organizations... --jergen 11:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Hm, good point, but that doesn't make them "strange" -;) Again, many thanks for the help. Rlevse 12:31, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
the notes are set up now, but the dynamic links in Belgium and Poland aren't working, I'll fix it later. Rlevse 15:00, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
They all seem fine now. Rlevse 16:28, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New cat

I've created Category:Scouting in Russia and put some articles in it, but I've sure there are others I haven't found yet. Rlevse 15:02, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Found one. --jergen 21:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Task force

As no one has objected to the name or Kingbird being the TF coordinator, I've creating this. See the the TF talk page and main page (on the project navigation pane. Rlevse 15:13, 10 December 2006 (UTC)...go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Scouting/Girl Guiding and Girl Scouting task force. One of the first things members should do is define your goals and scope. I and I'm sure others will help with templates, ideas, whatever you need, just let us know.Rlevse 15:24, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
drop by the task force page, Kingbird is trying to get it off the ground. Rlevse 16:46, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image captions

Brother Jergen, At the link you sent me to, it says "Photos and other graphics should have captions unless they are “self-captioning”, ... when the graphic is an unambiguous depiction of the subject of the article. I've taken off the caption boxes for several reasons-

1) Many of the articles are beginning to standardize to the WorldScout template, which does not use the caption box.

2) The images _are_ selfexplanatory, except in cases like Burma or Georgia or Laos or Mali, where there is some text or some part of the emblem which bears explanation.

3) Other articles on the Wikipedia, like articles on corporations or police departments or army units, do not use the caption box, it is understood that the image used is their logo.

4) Removing the caption boxes makes the articles look cleaner, especially since many of the fleur-de-lises you got at that German site have too much white space around them. Removing the caption boxes deemphasizes that.

5) Several of the removed caption boxes were poorly titled or misspelled. Nobody is going to look at the image and think it is something unrelated.

Those are my reasons, I hope you understand. Now, if there is consensus from project members to put them back, I will stop removing them, but I hope you will understand my logic and let me continue. Thanks, brother. Chris 15:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

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