Talk:Jeff Gordon

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Please remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~) -- that way we can keep discussions on point and resolve problems. Iamvered 08:28, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Locked

I loaded this up with the {{sprotected}} tag because it is continually being vandalized/fandalized by IP numbered users. At least now they'll have to be registered to make edits. If anybody disagrees with this, remove it. --Iamvered 08:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Don't you have to be an admin to semi-protect pages? --Zpb52 08:27, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Nobody told me I couldn't. And it makes sense, so I did. --Iamvered 08:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
You appear to be mistaken, Iamvered. Adding {{protected}} does not affect the article's editing capabilities at all, rather than adding a colored text box to the top of the page. It must actually be locked first, and only administrators have the ability to do that. DomRem | Yeah? 05:37, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

protect it you have not --yoda

try was nice it was yoda

To all gordon haters, please get the nickname right. It's "Wonderboy," not "Boy wonder." Where'd you get that nickname from anyway. Please change the nickname and cite that it was originated from Dale Earnhardt, Sr., and not the media. As hotly contested as this article is, please get your facts straight. If I'm wrong, which I'm sure I'm not, cite to your sources.

In addition, Jeff Gordon's probably the most polarizing figure in Nascar history. Administrator's please take a truly NPOV article and use it as Jeff Gordon's wikipedia entry (locking it of course), otherwise vandalism will continue to run rampant.

[edit] Why I included the gay rumors

I want to fend this off before edit wars get started over it.

Gordon's sexuality is immaterial. I have very much tried to keep NPOV as my guide. However, the fact remains that rumors of his homosexuality are rampant to the point that he has himself addressed the question on more than one occasion. The fact that it has gotten so much attention makes it worthy of mention in the article.

I have included source material that remains neutral. Anyone wishing to change this section is asked to keep NPOV about the issue, and not just to remove it to "protect" the subject.

Iamvered 09:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

  • How exactly is using Slate and the Globe as a source NPOV? Those are not reputable sources for an encyclopedia. -Jcbarr 13:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The Slate.com article does not voice an opinion one way or the other about Gordon's sexuality, it merely takes the sensationalism of the Globe to task. I agree that they are not reliable sources for the veracity of the issue of Gordon's sexuality, but they are perfectly valid as illustrative examples of how much impact the rumors have. The citation stands as being of a NPOV because there is nothing in the quote that denies or embraces the issue of his sexuality. Iamvered 21:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

JEFF GORDON IS NOT A HOMO HE IS STRAIGHT I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS HE IS MY FAV DRIVER AND IS BY FAR NOT A HOMO WHO EVER WROTE THIS IS A COMPLETE IDIOT!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.1.20.34 (talk • contribs).

Please see WP:CIVIL. Gordon is my favorite driver too, but it's a Wikipedia article. The gay rumors are and have been there in the past, and IMHO definitely deserve a mention in the article. DomRem | Yeah? 01:16, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
* Thanks. That's all I'm saying. Iamvered 22:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Am I the only one who has realized that popular people eventually become the unfortunate victims of rumors? And if Gordon is gay, well, accept it and move on! People need to learn to respect other people's feelings. But I agree, these rumors have been getting attention, and since some idiot decided to start a rumor that Jeff is gay that was told and believed by so many people that the rumor got so much attention that, well, i guess it had to be included. Well, i think i proved my point, and I need to get on with my research project on Jeff Gordon. Most sincerely, Anonymous Contributor

Thank u anonomus contributor I agree w/evrything u said x-cept in is not "if" it is NO!

I deleted the part of the gay rumors to keep the disputes down to a min.

  • Response to anonymous censor: DO NOT under any circumstances delete information you don't agree with on a discussion page. These "disputes" you're trying to keep to a minimum is the very reason these pages exist, and this is precisely the forum for them. If you disagree with something, say so. But don't obliterate all record of everyone else's point of view just because you don't agree. And sign your flippin' name. --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Read what I wrote earlier regarding why this section is in here. And then improve that section if you like. Just maintain a NPOV and don't try to turn Wikipedia into fan propaganda (or a smear campaign either, for that matter). Just let the facts be facts. --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

The simple fact that more editing has been done on this subject than any other in the article is a testament to the need to address the issue. And in as much as all you have done is address the issue, not attempt to prove or disprove,the inclusion is commendable. dennis 18:05, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

The edit war begun it has. yoda

Here's the deal, I'll cite to sources that are as trustworthy as the globe and the slate. I'm not using them to prove the truth of the matter asserted, but merely to show that these rumors exist. These sources will be relevant to Jeff Gordon's life, and please don't delete. Whatever rumors I include are prevalent in the Nascar community, like the gay rumors, and therefore are NPOV for purposes of wikipedia, much like Iamvered asserts above.

Here's the deal. The people that are upset that the gay rumors keep getting deleted are probably upset because they see it as a form of gay bashing. That's not the point! It's not gay bashing to delete reports of rumors when those reports have never been credibly substantiated. Do you understand?? If they said Jeff Gordon was rumored to be a charity lover, I'd delete those as well if they weren't true! If Jeff Gordon were gay, then fine. However, you'd never see rumors like this included in the encyclopedia britannica. For that same reason, they should not be included here. Wikipedia is not a place to spread rumors. If you have proof, then go ahead and state it, but by merely stating the rumors, you're working to verify them in the minds of people that don't understand what NPOV means. Please get rid of the rumors because they add nothing to the article.

I've said it before: since I'm not sleeping with him, I have no dogs in the sexuality race at all. This is not some kind of gay agenda thing. However, if you look at other Wikipedia articles about pop-culture figures in the public eye, pretty much anything that gets press is valid for inclusion-- Madonna's affairs, Michael Jackson's suspending a baby off a balcony, Kobe Bryant's alleged assault. And talk and rumors abound too, in plenty of other articles: Anne Murray, James Dean, Elvis Presley are three entertainers alone who have similar homosexuality rumors flying about them; the article on Hillary Rodham Clinton includes references that some people think she killed Vince Foster, and that of Adolf Hitler purports that he may have had only one testicle. I guarantee that Britannica wouldn't have included any of these things either. The point is: this article's simply mentioning that rumors of Jeff Gordon's homosexuality exist is valid, because it has received enough attention to become part and parcel of understanding precisely who Jeff Gordon is. Knowledge, particularly encyclopedic knowledge, of a subject means presenting all the gathered data, and letting readers make up their minds for themselves on how to use that knowledge. We pass no judgment one way or another. Whether Gordon is gay or not, dating supermodels or not, or was a child prodigy or not can all be debated-- the fact that such debates exist about him are enough to warrant inclusion. Iamvered 21:56, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Well put Iamvered. As I said before, since these rumors have been lots of attention, I guess they do have to be added, whether people like it or not. Anyway, all it is is a damn rumor. Why believe in something that nobody even proved? --Anonimous Contributor

[edit] POV problems

1) The description of criticism of Gordon needs to accurately reflect the views of those who are crtical of him rather than what his fans say about his critics. The word "villification" itself is POV and should not be on the page.

2) The claim that is widely considered the best active driver has no place on the page. The strongest thing that can be said he is that he is among the best drivers.

3) The claim that he was a child prodegy is not supported on the page. Neither is the claim that he started racing at the age of four.

4) The result section for the 2004-2006 seasons are (or were) full of POV stuff. The old wording of the 2004 season rather than giving the facts presents an excuse for why he should have won the cup even though he didn't. The 2005 result is even worse. He didn't make the cut because he had a bad season. Trying to blame everything that went wrong in the season on the crash that finished him off is POV. The paragraph wording is even worse in that its clearly been added to several times to obscure the important facts. The important fact of the 2006 season is that he is/was in 9th as far as points. Trying to use individual race results to somehow hide or offset that he is in 9th is also POV.

Since attempts to correct the content of the page have been reverted without comment, its expected that those responsible will either explain why the current content is acceptable by Wikipedia standards or make the necessary changes themselves.

I stand by "vilification" as a perfectly acceptable (and better) term, because you can't honestly say Gordon is unpopular. He is very popular. And as many people that love him, hate him and "vilify" him, smearing him with insults, booing him, etc. That's not POV, that's fact. I'm reverting unless you can prove me wrong. I'd be okay with a better word if you can find one, but to imply that Gordon is "unpopular" is just untrue. --Iamvered 08:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Once again, I stand by you, Iamvered, and your great talent on expressing your brilliantly smart thoughts. Heh, I suck at typing like you do.;-) --Anonimous Contributor

[edit] Who is Howard

The article refers to a potential dispute between Schneider (the maiden name of Gordon) and Howard which could potentially lead to violence. Howard is not otherwise identified in the article nor is a reason given for the dispute. As someone who has very little knowledge of NASCAR, I can't fix the problem. I would be grateful if a knowledgeable person can fix the problem.

Capitalistroadster 07:21, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

All of the vandalism which discusses this has been deleted. RickK 07:23, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] E.I. Lyrics

I'm not sure that this is noteworthy, but if it is, it should be quoted correctly.

From the article:

Gordon even became a subject in Nelly's breakout song "E.I." A passage from the rapper's 2000 hit goes:

    I drive fastly, call me Jeff Gordon
    In a black S.S. with the navigation

the lyrics are I drive fastly, not quickly, as a google for E.I. lyrics shows, and the fact that a Google for "I drive quickly call" comes up "did not match any documents."

[edit] Born-Again Christian?

On what site or source is it stated that Jeff is a Born-Again Christian? Can it be stated in the article?Chaz 23:06, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Update: Yes, it can be verfied on Jeff Gordon's Website.

It doesn't say that he is a Born-Again Christian. It just says that he "Welcomed God into his life a few years ago." Chaz 00:18, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

      • I have heard him talk about it with Darrel Waltrip, and have heard Darrel mention it other times as well. It's been a while since he's been really vocal about it, but I remember him talking about his passion for Jesus and what changed in his life when he became a Christian.

Around 2001, he talked about his faith in a commercial for some form of book. Modor 06:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)Modor

[edit] "Popularity, lack thereof" in heading

A few weeks ago, lack thereof was removed from the heading by an anonymous IP[1]. It was readded today by Iamvered with the edit summary "remove fan bowdlerization". Now, while I do agree with him on including the gay rumors, I almost find this summary insulting because I was strongly considering removing it too. It sounds POV in the way that the article is against Gordon and is also illogical considering the paragraph before it ends with a sentence stating he finishes second in the Most Popular Driver contest every year!

If he were an unpopular driver, I would think he would be a figure along the lines of Barry Bonds and Terrell Owens, but Gordon is certainly not anywhere near that (and the only driver who is near that in NASCAR is Kurt Busch). Saying he has a lack of popularity because fans of other drivers boo him since he's won four championships is ridiculous, in my opinion. The New York Yankees are often cheered against by fans of other teams since they've won the World Series so many times, but would you call them unpopular? That's why I think this should be removed. DomRem | Yeah? 17:41, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

One only need look at the edit history of this very article on Wikipedia to see that Jeff Gordon is both a very popular driver, and a very unpopular driver. It seems that almost as many people love him as hate him. Personally, I have no opinion on him whatsoever; I don't even follow NASCAR. I'm just trying to make Wikipedia's content about him fair, unbiased and complete. The reason I referred to the "fan bowdlerization" is because the reversions I made not only changed the heading of this section, but also restituted content that was taken out about the whole "gay rumors" thing at the same time (Revision as of 14:58, April 5, 2006 by 69.160.77.209) As far as the heading goes, maybe "Popularity, vilification and personal life" would be better. Edit as you see fit, I just have a problem with calling someone whose public perception is so deeply divided unilaterally "popular." Iamvered 18:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
OK, I take back what I said about being offended by that summary; it was my fault for jumping the gun and not bothering to look over the entire edit. I just felt that there could be a better term than "lack thereof" as it almost sounds like Popularity (or lack thereof), rather than the fact people are wildly divided in their opinions about him. And now that you mention it, you are right in that "Popularity" alone would likely be just as bad, if not worse.
I also agree that vilification would probably be better (and less confusing). For now, I'll replace what's currently there with it. Thanks for clearing this up! DomRem | Yeah? 22:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Glad it worked out! Civility rules! Thanks! Iamvered 22:59, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I was wondering if it would be possible if someone could get the facts that Jeff's favorite color is red, his favorite animal is the cheetah, and that his favorite street car is the Ferrari Spider in the article? I found this info in a book and I thought I might put it in this article somehow but I don't know how, nor do I know how to add stuff in an article. Also if someone knows his favorite foods I would appreciate it if someone would put that in also. Thanks.

Once again,

Anonymous Contributor

Maybe you should be looking at Tiger Beat instead of Wikipedia. That's the place for that kind of info. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a fan site. It should contain relevant, factual information. --Iamvered 08:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] one of the reasons he is unpopular

"In years past, the circuit was nothing but gritty, slimy, bar-fighting guys who lived in the back of a pickup, drank their breakfast and once they got on the track, just wanted to bang into each other." - Jeff Gordon's stepfather John Bickford

Contrary to whats on the page, he is unpopular because he is seen as a rich prettyboy yuppie who owes his career to his stepfather's money. His unpopularity isn't regional, its based on social status. People hate him for the same reason they hate their bosses spoiled kids and their boss. Bickford's well-known hate for white trash has rubbed off on Gordon.

What makes people mad? He makes excuses for himself (Go read the parts of the page that deal with the last three seasons). He comes across as a wuss and a coward. And NASCAR plays up the class differences in its audience as a way of promoting the sport. Nothing generates interest like an equally divided audience each with its own hero and villian. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.163.100.6 (talk • contribs).

Acctually he is very popular it just does not show at the track. The reason it seems this way is because Dale Jr. fans are much more rowdier and louder than Jeff Gordon fans, like me. --69.1.20.100 01:32, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Age Five

Be advised it notes in his book that he began racing at the age of five. This is also validated at racingone.com. The preceding unsigned message was left by User:Killakane24.

I cited the website. It is important to cite references, so please cite in the future. The trivia section needs citation too. If you would list the name, author, ISBN #, etc. for the book I would take care of doing the citing for you! Royalbroil 14:41, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Cool, thanks for that. I'm new at this (just joined today).--Killakane24 18:57, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your contributions. We can always use help at WikiProject NASCAR if you're interested. Royalbroil 19:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
The source curently listed isn't good enough. Any claim that he raced at five is going to have to source to something that says *what* kind of racing he was doing at the age of five. If thats his book, fine. But the webpage cited is little more than a PR piece on Gordon which isn't a credible source. This page doesn't need more information on the subject, but some sort of reasonable source has to be found. 152.163.100.6 13:41, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
is his NASCAR.com bio GOOD enough for you?--Killakane24 02:57, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I found it interesting that User:152.163.100.6 is a well-known vandal and sock puppet according to the user page. All comments should taken in that light. The sources seem good enough to me. STOP BEING DISRUPTIVE. Royalbroil 04:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Ok Sir. First, before you start making accusations like that you might want to check your facts. The IP address in question is a pool address of a certain well-known service provider. That means that it gets randomly assigned and the user of that address is usually not the same person.
After that, go refresh yourself on Wikipedia policy as per personal attacks on discussion boards. In your case, that includes false accusations and name-calling. In your case, its even worse in that you are making those accusations in an attempt to prevent discussion of POV and source problems with this page.
On the main subject, nobody has presented a credible source that describes Jeff Gordon as racing at the age of five. Fansites for Jeff Gordon and the bio at the NASCAR website are not credible sources per Wikipedia. Again, if the claim about racing at the age of five is going to be made, someone is going to have to find a source that says where and what racing he did at the age of five. 152.163.100.6 07:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Well since i believe NASCAR.com bio is a credible source, im just going to go ahead and put it back on there. --Killakane24 04:41, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Definitely add it. An administrator may be needed to come and resolve this problem. How anyone can dispute nascar.com as a credible source is beyond me. Royalbroil 04:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chicagoland Controversy

Does the recent controversy surrounding his recent win at Chicago really belong? I know we're all fired up about that, but it probably won't be that memorable a few years down the line. --D-Day I'm all ears How can I improve? 22:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Might as well add his run-in with tony last year, the kenseth incident at bristol earlier this year, the rusty incident at bristol a few years back. The chicago "incident" may be newsworthy but it hardly belongs in a npov article about a race car driver. It more properly belongs in a newspaper article which I don't think Wikipedia holds itself out as. Please delete. James Brown

Why delete the bristol race if you're going to include the chicago race? You reference bristol, might as well include what happened so that readers have a npov as to the both incidents. Don't delete the bristol incident, and if you do, state your reasons why. mick jagger

[edit] Correct spelling of Jeff Gordon's full first name

...is "Jeffery," not "Jeffrey," according to the Palm Beach County (FL) property appraiser's website. Here's the record for one of his homes, as of 9/16/06: http://www.co.palm-beach.fl.us/papa/aspx/web/detail_info.aspx?p_entity=12434621080050050&geonav=Y&styp=general&owner=gordon%20jeffery&city=-1&zip=&method=owner&cidx=-1&sdiv=&sdivnam=&stno=&pdir=&st=&strnm=&sufx=&ptdir=&cty=&rng=&twp=&sct=&blk=&lot=&book=&page=&tangid=&condo=&condoname=&use=&usnam=&sloc=&prd=&pedir=&podir=&famt=&tamt=&fsqft=&tsqft=&srt1=&srt2=&srt3=&stpage=0&adlfilter=

And the official records website of Palm Beach County (FL) lists numerous other transactions--some including ex-wife (Jennifer) Brooke--again, with the same "Jeffery" spelling. Just click here and enter "Gordon Jeffery" (no commas): http://oris.co.palm-beach.fl.us/or_web1/or_sch_1.asp 4.247.143.48 06:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)Deej

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