Talk:Jamaica

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Jamaica is either included in the 2006 Wikipedia CD Selection or is a candidate for inclusion in the next version (the project page is at WPCD Selection). Please maintain high quality standards, and if possible stick to GFDL and GFDL-compatible images.

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Contents 1 Opening comments 2 Hurricanes 3 Copyvio 4 Rastafari 5 National bird 6 Slavery, etc. 7 Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board 8 Sean Paul 9 Demographics 9.1 And Henry Morgan was chicken liver 10 Education 11 Politics 12 Time of the first settlement 13 Crime rate? 14 Sectarianism 15 Arawak survival?! 16 small 17 Questionable Circumstances?? 18 National Rum 19 Proposed WikiProject

[edit] Opening comments

is a [[Template Uh, the Info Box on Jamaica is pretty shaky. Someone seems to have mixed it pretty thoroughly with Barbados. Which makes me wonder about the rest of the page... 11/8/03

It seems like a lot of this content, and certainly the image, is directly copied from the CIA World Factbook - Jamaica site. I am planning on contacting the CIA to see if this was used with permission. - Shadowe - 05/23/04

All information from the CIA World Factbook is allowed. - Shadowe - 05/23/04

Police seek Jamaican singer after armed attack on gay men

[edit] Hurricanes

Ivan is close to here. It is now 60 miles South of Montego Bay, Jamaica. --Patricknoddy 13:18, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy --Patricknoddy 13:18, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy 9:18 September 11, 2004 (EDT)

[edit] Copyvio

69.141.70.196, who thinks Rastafarians are stupid, added material straight from [1] which is a copyvio, and therefore must be reverted on sight. Her also removed stuff he considers stupid, --SqueakBox 00:12, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

It looks like the added text contains material from multiple sources. For instance, "By the end of the 16th century the Arawak population had been entirely wiped out, suffering from hard labor, ill-treatment and European diseases to which they had no resistance" appears to be copied from "http://www.pilotguides.com/destination_guide/central_america_and_caribbean/jamaica/sugar_plantations.php", and "Vast numbers died as a result of forced labor and thousands more committed suicide by hanging themselves or drinking poisonous cassava juice to escape from their bondage. Mothers are said to have murdered their children rather then let them grow up and suffer the slavery they had known under Spanish rule" quoted in [2], among other places. In my opinion the number of copyright violations justifies reversion of the page. User:Xero, please feel free to continue to edit it but write in your own words, please. — Knowledge Seeker দ 00:35, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The recent edits [3] continue to contain copyright violations (for example, "Jamaica is an independent country, completely self-governed since 1962 when the island ceased to be a British colony. Jamaica is governed by a parliamentary democracy, After Independence, Jamaica chose to be a part of the British Commonwealth, and to keep the Queen of the United Kingdom as the constitutional monarch, the titular head of the country. The Government of Jamaica was patterned on the Westminster model of government, and is composed of the Queen as head of state, and a bicameral Parliament. In Jamaica, the Governor General, who is appointed by Her Majesty upon the recommendation of the Prime Minister of Jamaica, represents the Queen" from [4] and "Jamaican Jews have contributed much to the island's rich history and cuture. Poet Daniel Lopez Laguna, 1635-1730, a survivor of the Spanish Inquisition who converted biblical Psalms into poems. A book of these poems, "Espejo Fiel de Vidas," The True Mirror of Life, was published in 1720 and holds the distinction of being the first book to be published in Jamaica under British rule" from [5]. I'll revert these changes. — Knowledge Seeker দ 01:14, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Rastafari

I have asked Xero to source his claim that only outsiders believe they think Haile selassie is God. According to him no self-respecting rasta would believe such a thing, --SqueakBox 01:39, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)

I'm Jamaican and have a few Rastafarian friends, there are actually "sects" within the movement with what I feel are conflicting views. There are some who (you get the impression) do believe that and there are others who give you the impression that they believe otherwise. The two sects of the religion I'm aware of are the "Nyah Bhingi" and the "Bobos," the latter being a more radical and militant "denomination" within the movement. They do have similar views in some respects however, there are some obvious conflicting views between the two. There may be more sects within the movement however, I'm not aware of these, I plan to carry out further research in order to get more info. And let me add, not al Rastafarians practic/believe in the smoking of marijuana - which happens to be illegal in Jamaica!!!

Interesting! Perhaps you should edit Rastafari movement, SqueakBox 23:09, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National bird

The "Doctor Bird" is listed as: Swallow-Tail Hummingbird Trochilus ploytmus at [6], the "Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Foreign Trade" website. Elsewhere (including in Wikipedia) Trochilus ploytmus is called the "Green-and-black Streamertail" and the Swallow-tail Hummingbird is listed as (e.g., Hummingbird) is said to be Eupetomena macrourus. I've stuck with the latin name, but not really sure what the best option is. Guettarda 20:21, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Slavery, etc.

This article is very sparse. The island's history of slavery should be fleshed out, and mention should be made of its role in the triangular trade. Some further reference to African/New World African, East Indian and Rastafari cultures are warranted, as well. deeceevoice 17:31, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board

I would like to announce the establishment of the Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 04:07 (UTC)

[edit] Sean Paul

Is Sean Paul Jamaican?

Yes, he is. Have a look at the Sean Paul article. Guettarda 6 July 2005 22:24 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

The section on Demographics is COMPLETE nonsense:

"The majority of the population is of mixed race, of Black, Indian, Chinese and British, Irish and other European heritage. People of single race compose a tiny minority, although many members of minority groups (particularly Hindustani and Chinese) have managed to remain unmixed. Unmixed Indians comprise 1.7% of the population and unmixed Chinese are 1.3%. Mixed Indians are about 0.6%."

^^^ That is a gross exageration. Signficangly mixed race persons make up a small minority in Jamica, and the vast majority (at least 90%) are black and unmixed. The statistics given in the CIA world fact book are more acurate.

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/jm.html

Ethnic groups: black 90.9%, mixed 7.3%, East Indian 1.3%, white 0.2%, Chinese 0.2%, other 0.1%

_______________________________________________________

lol. The country Jamicia is very similar to South Africa's population! A MAJORITY Black (unmixed) population, with around a 8% Mixed raced group! Mixed raced people are in the vast minority! And it is very easily to tell them apart from the Black population whom in general are very dark in complexion!

________________________________________________________

I don't know if I agree... as a Jamaican I know for a fact that many mixed race people claim themselves as Black, for the sheer fact that there is a strong black pride, Back to Africa type movement on the island. For example, Damien Marley is obviously of mixed heritage but is very into the Rasta movement.

________________________________________________________

"Over the past several decades, hundreds of thousands of Jamaicans have emigrated, especially to the United States but also to Canada and the United Kingdom..... Due to Commonwealth Law and Jamaica's history with Britain, most Jamaicans that emigrate, go to the United Kingdom..."

Which is it? Do most of them go to the UK, or have they emigrated "especially to the United States"?

_______________________________________________________

Why in the world is Jamaica's involvement in the Winter Olympics included in the Demographics section? Also, the person who included this paragraph wrote the incorrect year of Jamaica's first participation in the Winter Games. Additionally, the team has never placed as high as fourth in the Olympics. Also, there's no possible way that the bobsled had any kind of effect on the Jamaican economy. Bobsledding can hardly be classified as an "industry". JediScougale 07:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] And Henry Morgan was chicken liver

How anybody could write a history of Jamaica and leave only one line or so about Henry Morgan [7] is quite beyond me. And by the way is there a certain US general and high official of some repute? El Jigüe 2-9-06

No, not Chicken Liver, as we in Jamaica say "Duppy Pickney" (which amounts to just about the same as chicken or chopped liver), and what about one certain pirate a lad by the name of Edward Teach maybe you know him as "Blackbeard" and how about Port Royal - Once the richest seaport "this side of the pond" (or was the world), "the wickedest city on earth."

[edit] Education

this is an excerpt from the education part of the article

Presently the following categories of schools exist:

Early Childhood – Basic, Infant and privately operated pre- school. Age cohort – 2 – 4 years.

Primary – Publicly and privately owned (Privately owned being called Preparatory Schools (Prep). Age cohort 4 – 11 years.

Secondary – Publicly and privately owned. Age cohort 11 – 18 years.

Tertiary - Community Colleges, Teachers’Colleges, Vocational Training Centres, Colleges and Universities.

There is no free education in Jamaica, which results in an enormous amount of uneducated people, particularly in the more impoverished sections of the country.

How can schools be owned publically, but not be free?

>> While public schools may be free in other countries, its not so in Jamaica. It may help if you think of the public schools as not being completely reliant on the government - they do collect fees and receive private donations.

[edit] Politics

Someone with more local knowlege than me needs to update "In February 2006, Portia Simpson Miller was elected by delgates of the ruling People's National Party, to replace the current Prime Minister, P. J. Patterson, at the end of March 2006 when he leaves office." now that she's taken office. I can tell that she's taken office, because I'm in Kingston, and all the right-wing radio talk-show hosts deplore her supposed feminine vanity continuously. Good luck to her and the country, if I can say that without being political. --Bill

[edit] Time of the first settlement

I am not expert in Jamaica, but it seems that it most be wrong here, check with History of Jamaica "The original Arawak or Taino people from South America first settled on the island between 1000 and 400 BC." --Tejto

Not to turn this political, the majority of her support came from what is called by her "the grass-roots or the bowels of the people," and personally I think a country's political future should not be determined LARGELY by the lower classes, they tend to be less interested in matters political (well at least here in Ja.).

[edit] Crime rate?

I've read that crime has gotten so bad in Jamaica it's unsafe for tourists outside of walled resorts and that gangs have practically unchallenged control of vast areas of major cities, especially at night.

Links:

http://www.jamaicancaves.org/jamaica-crime.htm

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1147.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060501faessay85307/john-rapley/the-new-middle-ages.html

My God, that is utter rubbish, that has to be the most untrue statement ever made, no such thing occurs here in Ja. Tourists (I know this for a fact) are just about as safe as anywhere in the world, if not safer! Let me ask one question, would you as a tourist feel comfortable in a "walled resort" with no exposure to the outside world, which you came to enjoy in the first place. And about "gangs" having" unchallenged control of vast areas of major cities" is trash in its purest form!!! As I think of it I get really upset, kindly get facts straight before you go around repeating garbage you hear from some under-read, "informatinally-challenged" and facts starved idiot on some crappy talk show or wherever you heard that swill. You had to be on the net to post that comment, google helps, if you are not sure what I mean, I mean LOOK IT UP!!! The Police in Ja. is making positive steps in an effort to stem the level of crime in the country, which has been on the decline since the new police commissioner (Lucius Thomas) has taken over. There are many award-winning efforts to stem crime and violence, which happens to be a hugely exaggerated problem in Ja. It does exist, but not to the extent the media wants it to look, where do you think this is, the wild west? -Kamron

Name calling and hyperbole does your argument no good. Utter rubbish? Check the links I posted. One is from the Dept. of State (US), another from Foreign Affairs magazine, whose essayists are well known and respected and whose readership includes political leaders around the world. Did you even bother to follow the links I posted? I thought not. Pride in one's country is nothing is to be commended, but in the future, instead of posting knee-jerk reactionary drivel, try following up with some vetted sources of your own. I would like to have seen links to credible sites that back up the claim that Jamaica's police have a handle on the gang problems in the major cities. Let's see stats. If the US State Department has concerns about the crime rate in Jamaica, then I would agree there's a serious misconception somewhere.

BTW, widespread gangs having de facto political control of major cities is not confined to Jamaica; Mexico and Brazil are also having serious problems right now in some cities. The Foreign Affairs article discusses the syndrome... it is only one expert's opinion, granted.

-- jlowery

I happen to know by personal experience, as well as other sources, that it is safe enough for tourists to walk outside of the walled resorts. However, there are many theories about the gangs in Jamaica, so I suppose that part can be left out for the time being. As for the crime in Jamaica, it is a real concern, and quite verifiable, so that should probably be included. Nancysing 23:22, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sectarianism

While it is understandable that people have their own religious beliefs and disagree with others, we cannot accept them using wikipedia as a vehicle for sectarian prosletizing. For example, the phrase "Protestant denominations, which is evidence of Jamaica's active and lively intellectual climate. Roman Catholicism, a remnant of early Spanish immigration from the time of the Inquisition" clearly associates Prostestantism with 'lively intellectual's and Catholicism with 'the Inquisition'. This is pure sectarianism - associating one religious group with negative events in order to promote another by association with positive qualities. The same edit goes on to describe Rastafarianism as 'unorganized, cult like'. It is more neutral and relevant to point out that both Protestantism and Catholicism were brought to Jamaica as part of the colonization process of Britain and Spain respectively. 'Cult like' as a phrase has no meaning and 'unorganized' is simply false (decentralised does not mean unorganized). It is pointless using the Jamaica page to prosecute a religious war of words. It is sufficent to link the words to their respective articles so that readers can learn more.

I agree. I'm also not sure about Jimmy Cliff playing a "psychopathic reggae-musician who gets caught up in crime" either!--Zleitzen 08:41, 24 June 2006 (UTC) maybe it

[edit] Arawak survival?!

"The original Arawak or Taino people from South America first settled on the island between 1000 and 400 BC. Although some claim they became virtually extinct following contact with Europeans, others claim that some survived." Oh really?! What legitimate source claims that? I just completed W.J. Gardner's "A History of Jamaica" a month or two ago and the clear implication from Gardner is that the Arawaks were completely whiped out under Spanish rule. This claim needs sourced --Raogden 21:24, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] small

through the small nation jamaica been a rich in culture

[edit] Questionable Circumstances??

"It remained the capital until 1872, when the city of Kingston was named capital under questionable circumstances."

Does anyone know what these circumstances were? I feel like this answer is very vague. I'm new to wikipedia, but I don't think it is a NPOV statement? YoniLevin 17:24, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Rum

I believe that the "National rum" line at the bottom of the list of "nationals" should be deleted and/or reworked into a different section because:

1. It's uninformative. (An answer of "it doesn't have one" is given.)
2. It's nonsensical and therefore becomes confusing or possibly even comical. (Most countries have national birds and national flowers, but I don't know of any country having a national rum.)
3. It could be seen as stereotypical and therefore offensive.

[edit] Proposed WikiProject

There is now a proposed WikiProject for the Caribbean area, including Jamaica, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Caribbean. Interested parties should add their names there so we can determine if there is enough interest to start such a project in earnest. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:01, 13 December 2006 (UTC)