User talk:JackofOz/Archive3

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[edit] Devon/Devonport

Thanks for the correction to my reference to Devon as opposed to Devonport in Tasmania. I don't know where I got Devon from, but whatever it is it's the town where I caught the ferry to Melbourne. And yea, I do tend to get around... --gbambino 18:05, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hunh

Whoa. At Frédéric Chopin... according to the page history here, you added "yo yo yo" to the bottom of this article, with an edit summary of "rv vandalism"! The page history got scrambled, I guess. I didn't know that could happen; that's scary. Herostratus 07:47, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Dang. I hope its just a temporary local glitch, otherwise we're in for a slew of very confused people being blocked and stuff... sheesh. I'll mention it at bug reports. Glad you had a laff at that freaken cum fart article lol... Herostratus 08:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Day/month order

Hi. Yes, I'm aware of that. It was a point of principle. I was just following around someone who seems to have taken on the mission of changing all the birth and death dates in articles about British people to American order. -- Necrothesp 02:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Op. versus Opp.

Thanks for asking - the truth is that I'm not an English native speaker and I've never heard of Opp. before! Care to explain why opp. is used? --Missmarple 07:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, we learn something new every day :) --Missmarple 11:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prokofiev's War and Peace, and wikitables

Hello. I see that the W&P article is on your watchlist or somewhere else in your pages. I also see that you can do wikitables. Could you have a look at War and Peace (Prokofiev) and let me know whether you can work out why the table intended for the Performance History section has sunk to the bottom like insufficiently dried fruit in a fruit-cake. TIA. --GuillaumeTell 21:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your help. I cribbed and adapted the code from elsewhere without fully understanding what I was doing. Must try harder. Greetings from sunny (but not too sunny) York. --GuillaumeTell 11:42, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chopin change

Hello. You may not have been aware that your recent edit to the Chopin article was made to a cut-'n'-paste moved copy. I reverted the move, and subsequently re-instated your edit, with an edit summary that it was really your edit. Hope I got it right. --RobertG ♬ talk 10:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categorizing classical pianists

Hello, JackofOz :)! I remember talking with you about the 'classical pianists' category and its articles in the past, so I would like you to know about this: Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 February 11. I do feel that the 'Classical pianists' category works just perfect right now and would like to keep it just as it is now. Vote if you wish :) --Missmarple 11:06, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

An Award
I award this Barnstar of Diligence to JackofOz for the endless
patience and care he takes in answering questions about all
manner of things great and small on all flavours of the Reference
Desk. His knowledge, diligence, sense of humour and cool
under pressure are an example to all of us mortals.
Cheers! — QuantumEleven

[edit] None

Please see [1] about the singular/plural use of none. In practice "none have" and "none has" produced 1.57 and 1.62 million hits in Google. Seems both are acceptable. Rmhermen 01:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Vandal tags

Thank you for reverting vandalism on Wikipedia!

Be sure to put warning tags on the vandal's user talk page (such as {{subst:test}}, {{subst:test2}}, {{subst:test3}}, {{subst:test4}}). Add each of these tags on the vandal's talk page, in sequential order, after each instance of vandalism. Adding warnings to the talk page assists administrators in determining whether or not the user should be blocked. If the user continues to vandalize pages after you add the {{subst:test4}} tag, request administrator assistance at Request for Intervention. Again, thank you for helping to make Wikipedia better.Yankees76 19:05, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Vandal tag 1

Are you serious? Please point out where I've vandalised something. —Xezbeth 19:57, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re BXVI and the Lateran Basilica

I have just answered your question (for what its worth) about why mention the date Benedict XVI took possession of the Lateran Basilica. Two weeks ago I know and perhaps you have forgotten. Stroika 19:34, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Walter Hendl

The above was tagged for speedy, I've converted it to {prod} but I strongly suggest you put some more data in there ASAP since as it stands there is nothing to substantiate notability. I'm sure you have something you can add, so please give it some thought. Thanks, Just zis Guy you know? 15:57, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Horowitz's Sexuality

Was it you that origionally added the portion about Horowitz's sexuality on the Vladimir Horowitz page? If so, could you please discuss the issue on the talk page preferably with references. Thank you. David618 04:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Revert edit summary script

All admins have a "rollback" link when viewing page diffs; clicking the link rolls the page back to the version by the previous editor and generates an automatic edit summary. Users without admin privileges can enable this same functionality via javascript with User:Sam_Hocevar's "godmode-light." To add this functionality, paste the following into your monobook located at User:JackofOz/monobook.js.

document.write('<SCRIPT SRC="http://share.zopatista.com/WikiPedia/godmode-light.js"><\/SCRIPT>');

After you've saved it, hold shift while clicking "reload" if you're using Mozilla/Safari/Konqueror. If you're using IE, press Ctrl-F5.

I have a full-featured monobook for non-admins if you'd like to try it. (It only works with Firefox, however.) It adds the roll back button, drop-down menus, links in the navigation bar and toolbox, a clock, etc. To install it, copy User:Wayward/User_monobookjs to User:JackofOz/monobook.js. You'll also have to copy User:Wayward/User_monobookcss to User:JackofOz/monobook.css. Be sure to reload both as described above. —Wayward Talk 21:24, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your Australia edit

Jack, I've just rolled back your last edit to Australia. It looked uncharacteristic of you - addind vandalism under the comment "rv vandalism". Has someone unauthorised been using your account? --Scott Davis Talk 21:53, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bouônjour!

I'm glad you appreciated the response—particularly considering your take on it.

Concerning Jèrriais (and Norman in general), it's a language few outside of France have heard of (I've known about it less than 5 years, myself), but I'm particularly fond of it. If you ever want to know more, just ask! (There's currently an extensive test-wiki in Norman, and work has begun on a wikilivre (French wikibook) on learning Norman.) The Jade Knight 09:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] joint sitting

mille mille grazie for input on this entry-arcane but exact, cheers Eric A. Warbuton 02:20, 24 March 2006 (UTC) (PS a favourite limerick of mine) There was a young queer from Broome Who took a lesbian upto his room

They argued a lot

About who should do what

And why and how and to whom.

Yep its 'BUT' around the late 19C there was a change in my family spelling-drunken convicts becoming literate? Eric A. Warbuton 02:43, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My username

Jack, please have a look at User talk:Arpingstone - Adrian Pingstone 09:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] response to "endowment"

He and I go to school together. It's an inside joke (albeit a true one) regarding a more personal matter. lol. Dlayiga 01:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hey jack

i was wondernign if you knew this specific quote of a christopher colombus which said "and the sea will grant each man new hope" i am collecting all intresting quotes could you tell me if you have any. thanks william cabbot

Hi William. That wasn't a quote I had heard before, but there are plenty of references to it on Google. It's attributed to Columbus, but I couldn't find where it was first recorded.
As to interesting quotes, I guess it's very much a personal thing. The web is full of great quote sites, not to mention Wikiquote, and there are lots of quotation books around as well. I hope you find some good ones. Cheers JackofOz 01:10, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gian-Carlo Menotti's relationship(s)

A question has been raised on Maestro Menotti's talk page as to your clarification that Menotti had a long and intimate relationship with conductor Thomas Schippers after Menotti's partner, composer Samuel Barber, died. While it would be lovely to think of Menotti finding another long-term relationship after Barber's passing, it's unlikely it would have been with Schippers, as that man died four years prior to Barber. Could it be possible that the intimacy their relationship is characterized as having was platonic, and concurrent with the time Schippers conducted the works of both composers? Interestingly, their relationship is not mentioned on Schippers' bio page. Has a relationship been publicly cited somewhere? Abrazame 11:40, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] explain...

Go to which the talk page of korsakoff's syndrome for your explaination. I didn't write the page, but perhaps you should add that in there for future users. the page is poorly written at a far too high level for the online community. -User:Damien Vryce

[edit] Re: Feedback

Wow, is my face red! Thanks for pointing those out, they've probably been there since I first wrote my user page and I haven't noticed all this time. I wish I had an excuse, but I really don't. It doesn't say a lot for my prowess in the field of Assistant English Teaching when I spell the name of my title wrongly, does it! Thanks again for pointing it out! Phileas 08:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I know what you mean. In University I was fighting a constant battle against the fast food outlet by constantly rubbing out the apostrophe from "pizza's" as I queued up to be served. It always reappeared whenever I went back. Phileas 08:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Re Harold Holt

All private info but it's never been much of a secret amongst what passes for the Melb gratin. I knew the son of Holt's mistress, and quite by chance also met a very gentlemanly old man who was a friend of the police chief. Also spoke personally to one of the biographers. Aust doesn't have a tabloid culture so there's lots of interesting stuff that doesn't get out.


gratin=upper crust

[edit] Вовремя

I was surprised by your information and checked my dictionaries, just in case. No surprise, all three said "no hyphen" (and all were published in 1990s). (For example, dictionary by Ozhegov and Shvedova, Moscow, Az, 1993.) For an online reference, see, for example, [2]. The spelling with hyphen is an orthorgaphic error, at least nowadays. Conscious 19:19, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spasiba Balshoy

I hate transliterating cyrillic into latin, but I'd just like to give you an extra thank you for trying to help me get Cyrillic characters onto my wiki entries. I'm in the midst of law exams up here in the "great white north" (Australia's sister country, Canada), but I'll give it another go once I'm finished next Monday. Once again, Spasiba "heaps". (See, I can speak Aussie too!) Loomis51 09:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Just thought I'd drop you a note to say that I enjoy our occasional verbal jousts on the Reference desks. I tend to go there after slogging through a bit of stub-sorting, and there's usually something at RD either pique my interest or just entertain me, and your comments are always worth reading. Cheers from across the Tasman! Grutness...wha? 02:55, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heinlein Quote

Yay! Thank you. Now I can sleep at night.... Skittle 09:48, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello!

My friend, you are one sharp Wikipedian :-) --HappyCamper 00:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it was a joke. I thought it was obvious enough? Anyway, I promise, I won't do it again :o) --HappyCamper 01:19, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Hah! Here's the trump card! [3] lol... --HappyCamper 19:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User page

Thanks for finding those errors; I pasted much of the page from the text of my userboxes, and errors were bound to happen. My typing (nor othographic) skills also tend to diminish when I edit in the early morning hours, and I must continue to remind myself not to edit WP after 01:00. In any case, thanks very kindly for your note; I'll make the appropriate changes. :) Joe 15:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Imprisoned after death

Hi! I noticed your post-mortem page, and I thought you might be interested in the case of General Kléber whose dead body was sent to a prison fortress: "After his assassination, the body of Kléber was repatriated to France. Napoleon, fearing that his tomb would become a symbol to Republicanism, ordered it to stay at the Château d'If, on an island near Marseille. It stayed there during 18 years until Louis XVIII granted him a burial place in his hometown in Strasbourg. He was buried on December 15, 1838 below his statue located in the middle of Place Kléber." Cheers, David Sneek 13:29, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Another interesting case: Cadaver Synod. David Sneek 14:33, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Canberra

That post is not mine. Adam 17:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorabji

Actually, if you read his online biographies, it states that his birth name was Leon Dudley Sorabji (his father was an Indian civil servant of Parsi background). Thats why I put Sorabji at the end of Leon Dudley. -Afghan Historian 21:10, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Moving this discussion to Talk:Kaikhosru Shapurji Sorabji. JackofOz 07:09, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Drop Bears

Thanks for the smile... and watch out for those drop bears! --DavidGC 06:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] userbox

Hey mate, how are you? I was just wondering how did you get the userbox on your user page? Thanks mate. --Sexuality6679 01:24, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] userbox

I just wanted to know how to get one that states what language I speak, my nationality and just other stuff. Thank you for your help mate

[edit] Brainstar

Sincerely asserting exuberant brainstar gratitude, Melbourne uchastnik! ...and that's quite enough of that, I think. —Zero Gravitas 01:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Animals beginning with the letter "U"

Have you seen it yet? :-) --HappyCamper 03:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I thought that was the most funny post on the RD in a while. The other day, another Wikipedian made a comment...something to the effect: Far out, brussel sprout. I thought that was quite cute too. --HappyCamper 04:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
My friend, this is the best I can come up with: what a tremendously perplexing question! :-) --HappyCamper 04:52, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Please let me know what you find on your treasure hunt! I'd be honoured if you found anything interesting. Do let me know by e-mail though :-) --HappyCamper 18:05, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] thank you so so much

I just wanted to express my thanks to you!!! I could not have finished my biography without the assistance. I felt a little silly for saying yugoslav but i figured if i was wrong someone smarter would have corrected me so thank you so much. Well now I know more about these people than most juniors in high school!(i feel like a smart teenager now)

While I am at it I may as well just ask...... How is it possible you know just about everything in the universe? are you sure you are human? hehehe

Thanks for the kind words. I must say I'm surprised at how quickly Gorbachev seems to have become forgotten, to the point that most school kids never get to hear about him at all. When he arrived on the scene in 1985, the Soviet Union was utterly entrenched as much as it had ever been. A short 6 years later it was gone, as was the Berlin wall. That was just so amazing at the time - but now, it's just taken for granted. Ah well, times change I guess. Btw, any impression that I or anyone here knows everything in the universe is definitely false. We just know most things. (lol). JackofOz 13:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] LOL!

But it won't taste very good (despite the homophone).

I was trolling browsing WP:RD/S and I thought that was rather funny. That made me show off my hydroxyapatite, if you know what I mean! --M1ss1ontomars2k4 (T | C | @) 05:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Max Reger

No, didn't find the answer. I really need to address the question to the record sleeve's designer I think. Thanks for your help! --Richardrj 10:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From Lewis (Loomis)

First of all, I feel like I know you well enough that you should know me by my true name, Lewis.

I sensed in your comment that perhaps you were offended by my remark. I sincerely hope that you weren't, as I by no means would ever want to offend you in that manner. (On the other hand, if I ever actually disagree with you on any issue, which has happened in the past and hopefully will happen many more times in the future, the gloves come off!)

First, though, I'd like to say that I have great admiration and respect for your intellect, but perhaps more importantly, your ability to speak your mind and engage in the most heated of debates with people, like myself, who on certain occasions hold diametrically opposing views to yours, while at the same time, rather counterintuitively, developing a kind of inexplicable kinship with that person. It's difficult to explain.

Back in law school I had this classmate by the name of "Noah". Now Noah and I disagreed on pretty much any topic you can think of. His views were at the extreme left of the spectrum, while he would often describe me as "that mean old right-wing corporate conservative Republican". Yet our frequent heated arguments over any and every issue were a pure delight. Despite our differences, I consider Noah to have been by far one of my best friends from law school.

As I'm sure you've noticed by now, I am completely unabashed when it comes to proclaiming my pride in my Jewish background, as well as the fact that I am a proud Zionist. All the while, as I hope you've noticed, I try my best to encourage others, of all other nationalities and faiths and any other distinguishing characteristics they may possess, to be proud of who they are, just as I am proud of who I am.

You also may have noticed, (with one glaring exception this week which I'd be glad to discuss if you'd like,) that I tend to avoid completely any references to anti-semitism, the Holocaust, "pogroms" etc... I should say now though that I definitely believe in the concept of "Never Forget" when it comes to the Holocaust, not just for the sake of Jews, but for the sake of mankind. Otherwise, however, I do my best to avoid "harping" on the Holocaust, anti-semitism etc... as I find it just so terribly undignifying. I actually cringe when I view such films as, for example, "Schindler's List". If there's anything I can't stand it's schmaltzy melodrama.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that I'm firmly against the whole idea of "playing the victim". I know it's a very common practice among my fellow Jews, but honestly, to me, it's downright embarrassing.

You're probably wondering by now if this long-winded speech of mine is actually meant to lead to some specific point. Well it is.

What I'd ultimately like to convey most here is that (perhaps unknowingly at first) I've been greatly moved by the world homosexual community's approach to battling bigotry and discrimination. The approach can be summed up in one word: Pride. The homosexual community seems to know better than to do the old "play the victim" game, as it ultimately leads nowhere.

So all I have left to say is that when it comes to anti-semitism or anti-Israeli hatred, I don't waste my time with tear jerking stories of oppression. All I have to say to the world is this: We're Jews, We're here to stay, We have a country, DEAL WITH IT!

All the best, Jack - Lewis Loomis51 05:24, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picnic

Come by my talk page. We are having a picnic today :-) --HappyCamper 03:47, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

Help save Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of relationships with age disparity

[edit] Fixing errors in other users' posts (Lukes query about his grandparents' schools)

Hi Jack, I'd first like to tell you that I've enjoyed your posts during the weeks I've been reading the reference desk. Regarding Luke's post, I appreciate your helping him with the punctuation and spelling, but I think we should be very cautious in assuming that sloppy spelling or punctuation is a result of not putting enough work into writing the question. Luke might be a very young person, or have a reading/writing disability, and the question could be the result of hard work. I have wanted to correct errors in other peoples posts some times myself (and have indeed done so a couple of times), but I'm unsure about the rules on this. Is it strictly forbidden, unless one rewrites it as you did, or could you have corrected it in-place, and written a small comment below it, something like

Hi Luke, I (Vibo56) have taken the liberty of inserting some punctuation into your post, because I think this will make it easier to read, and increase your likelihood of getting an answer.

or could you even have corrected it without any comment at all, like we do when removing email addresses? I'd be grateful for your thoughts on this on my talk page Best regards, vibo56 talk 20:43, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply from Vibo56

Thanks for your prompt reply, Jack. I agree with just about everything you said, except your preferring to to assume that Luke's prose was the result of having had the “benefit” of modern educational philosophy. It lacked the abbreviations typical of SMS influence, and was full of spelling errors. My reason for commenting what I perceived as a slightly judgemental tone, was a personal one. I have a daughter who used to write exactly as Luke did. Not a single full stop. Because she had no idea of where they would go.

Regarding the SMS pollution on the reference desk, I share your opinions entirely, and have at times been tempted to reply ironically, using the same abbreviations and throwing in some new ones of my own invention, but that wouldn't be the right thing to to.

With a post such as this one

this is regarding networks communication,i am always getting convuse between these words,can u plz make it clear, it would be so great and thankfulll to u .thanks a lot --- viv

One might change the ortography and punctuation only, and attach a small comment like this:

This is regarding networks communication. I am always getting confused between these words, can you please make it clear? It would be so great and thankful to you. Thanks a lot --- viv
Hi viv, I (Vibo56) took the liberty of fixing a couple of typos in your post, because I think this will make it easier to read, and increase your likelihood of getting an answer.

However, the comment might irritate some users, and would be unnecessarily moralistic towards the questioner. Therefore, I feel that the best thing to in that situation, would be to silently correct it. The only person likely to notice would be the questioner, who hopefully would get the message without being too offended.

When errors get humorous or even hilarious, such as on the morning of the 17th of June, I have no problem with humorous replies. Philc's calling it Stupidest repley [sic] of the day, however, was a bit unfortunate in my opinion, since this was the first post ever by the person who made it. I'm a bit ambivalent on commenting humourous errors resulting from poor command of the English language. It depends. I think your comment, "Pastatutes - is that sex workers who do kinky things with linguini?", was absolutely priceless. Best regards, vibo56 talk 08:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

PS. If you come across obvious typos in my posts, feel free to correct them silently. I don't mind a humorous comment if I make a mistake that turns out funny, but if the mistake is subtle and a result of my not being a native English speaker, I'd appreciate a small comment on my talk page explaining it, in addition to the humorous reply on the reference desk. vibo56 talk 08:00, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] SHITE!!!!

Hey Jack, I wrote you wonderfully thoughtful response but it all just seems to have been wiped away into the nothingness of cyber oblivion. Oh well. It's happened before and it'll happen again....que sera...

I'd just like to repeat one of my points though. When I used the old assume good faith mantra, yes, I was poking fun, but not at you. Rather I was poking fun at those pedantic, anal killjoys that seem to feel it's their personal mission to enforce every one of those ridiculous wiki "policies". Another that annoys the hell out of me goes something like this: "this is not a soapbox or a chatroom...please find another place to debate these issues".

Fuck those policies, I say! We, as editors, contribute our precious time, (do you know what I could be billing for some of the info I give out for free at wiki?) and yes, dare I say our intellect, into trying to respond to what are often inane, assinine questions, all for no monetary compensation whatsoever. All we ask for is to be allowed the simple pleasure of having a nice little debate about a novel topic. But somehow that's verbotten. We're expected to act like a troupe of trained monkees, diligently answering even the most ridiculous of questions, and expecting nothing in return. Fuck that! (See I can be moody too!)

Anyway, this is all to say that I wasn't lecturing you at all, I was merely poking fun at the absurdity of those ridiculous wiki policies designed to do nothing but wring out every possible bit of joy people like us get out of editing at the RefDesk.

As for you, though I often misunderstand your points and disagree with others, I consider you a true kindred spirit, which, if you knew me better, you'd undertstand is one of the highest compliments I can pay another human being.

I look forward to future "robust intellectual debate"! Keep well, moy droog, and all the best! Loomis 00:52, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Ferdinand von Mueller

Hi you added an assertion to Ferdinand von Mueller about his "Eponymous Record". I don't think you are right when he is compared with Lachlan Macquarie#Places named after Macquarie. At the very least could you please cite a source for your claim? :-) --A Y Arktos\talk 02:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your pic

Hi Jack, you might want to slap a copyright tag on Image:Jack's Pictures 023.jpg before some well-meaning admin comes along and deletes it. User:Angr 12:44, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Flamarande

Try Wikipedia:Reference desk archive/Humanities/June 2006 the very last "Nuclear" point. I like to think that I am Realist, but perhaps I am only a experienced Idealist. Try also "Was the Holocaust Illegal Under Nazi German Law?" A personal question of this kind should be put on the talkpage of the user, don't you agree? Flamarande 13:10, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

About the "don't you agree?" I must confess that my English is far from perfect. As for why I assume that all politicians lie the answer is quite simple really: they lie because we (the masses) force them to lie. Why do we vote in politician A and not on politician B? We really don't know either of them. We vote on candidate A because we buy his puplicity, his public image. The adverts, the press, the TV present us with a image which we largely believe.

The politicians are being watched alltoo closely by a eager Press and everything they say will be distorted, manipulated and put on the 10 o'clock news faster than we can believe and know. Therefore a politician which wants to stay in the game (wants to be elected) will be really, but really careful of what he says. He will make always "safe statements" and he will have to lie, and lie a lot.

Let's consider the following: country X is in war, and they ask politician A what does he think about it? If he says that he against the war, because he thinks that the war is wrong, and country X is not going to win, the press (aided by his political advesaries, but largely on their own) will say: "Politician A is against the war!" With any luck they will ask the "average person" what he thinks about the statement of A, and what will the average citizen say? "My boy (the son of my friend, whatever) is a trooper. A has no right to say that." What will the political advesary of A say? "I am very sorry that my estemed collague A has said such a thing. I support our troopers 200%." Give it enough time and A will be branded as a traitor or a anti-patriotic radical. The vast majority will not listen to his reasons or even notice that he never said that he against the troops. Congratulations A by just telling your honest opinion you have in a split second wrecked your entire career. That's a classic case, and we have all seen it.

So what will A say when they ask him that "innocent" question? "I support our troops 200%. But I believe that this war is going badly because this administration errors." Notice that he first assures his support for the troopers and then puts the blame upon the goverment (his political opponents).

That are fine examples of how we (the masses) are forcing politicians to lie because if they don't tell us what we really want to hear, their career is gone, kaputt. We don't want to hear that we are losing the war because the advesary is stronger, better trained or better equiped, or because our troops don't have the proper training and the equipment. We want to blame somebody at home, either the "traitors" or the "incompetents". By the way I am not basing this in the curren Iraq war, but it is a classic which has happened before and will happen again.

Why do US politicians (Dem and Rep) to pray so much publicly? They are making a statement about some disaster or danger and then they say "Now please join me in a prayer for the (whatever)." They do it because it is a safe and a nice thing to do. They will gain votes because of this. Christian mindset: "He cares, and he believes in the Lord. Therefore he is a good person and I will vote for him." I grant you that the vast majority of Christians are way too jaded to buy that, but it doesn't mater. It is safe: they will not lose votes because of it, and even if they only win a few votes of the "hardline believers" it will be worth it. If you think that it is a proper thing to do, I can only say that I rather prefer that politicians informed themselves better to govern us properly, to be able to make hard decisions. Also remember that should be always a clear separation of religion and politics.

Why do you think the Republicans are always shouting that they are against abortion and for the sancticity of any human live? Consider this: President is Rep, the majority of the Senate is Rep, majority of the congress is Rep. What is stopping them from passing a law that restricts Abortion? The US constitution? They can make a amendment can't they? Something about the sanctity of live and it would pass. The real answer is the following: they are not against abortion, for that tema is always is a win-win subject. If they restrict it, they will remove it from the public arena and way too many ppl vote in them because apparently they are against it. Leaving the Abortion subject on the table they can always use it against the Dems. This has worked and will work for the next decades.

Now for the political compass question. If a politician got a result that told him he is a rightwing (or leftwing) authoritan radical do you really believe he would tell us that?

Despite all that, I believe that Democracy is the best political system. They can be better systems in the future but we have to live in the present. But I am not going to ignore the many flaws in our Democrcies because of it. I like politics exactly because of its errors, flaws , mistakes, lies, and blatant manipulations. Because great leaders will lie to us (because we force them lie) but then they will do the right thing. Basicly, they will make hard decisions and go against the current public opinion. Flamarande 10:31, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

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