Image talk:Irangay teens.jpg

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Based on my reading of WP:FU we could very well be breaching copy right law. Until I'm sure, I won't stick it on IFU though.

The justification for its fair use was not robust enough certainly. Anyway, moving on, based on the ten step process described, this is what I came up with:

1. Yes --> 2

2. Yes --> 5

5. Not granted (yet) -->6

6. Yes (current news story) --> 7

7. This is the tricky bit, I have no way to tell, so I go with No --> 9.

9. No --> Tag {{IFD}}

I may very well be wrong here, especially on step seven. Do news photographs count as limited or wide distrubution? If so, it may in fact be fairuse, but we need to document it better.--Tznkai 17:45, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

The first example of a fair use image at WP:FU is "Unique historical images which we cannot reproduce by other means." Isn't this exactly what this image is? -- Samuel Wantman 20:13, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I thought it was a current event? At any rate, if we had a more specific copyright information, that'd be good.--Tznkai 20:16, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Once they were executed there is no way to rephotograph them being executed. Their execution is history. The controversy is a current event. The image is of an historical event. There is no way to rephotograph it. What copyright info is needed? The picture is labled with the source. -- Samuel Wantman 20:24, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Also, shouldn't the copyright information for the photo include uh. Dates?--Tznkai 18:17, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I added the date and a description.-- Samuel Wantman 20:32, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

I meant This picture is copyright 2005 by, so on and so forth. According to the discussion on talk:homosexuality I havn't the foggiest if this is actually the right source. After that, we need to prove its fairuse, or atleast make a specific argument for it, for each passage.--Tznkai 21:34, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

The source of this photo is called a "press release". Doesn't that make the answer to #7. "Does the nature of the image and source (if known) suggest it is intended for wide distribution (such as promotional images, devotional images)?" a YES? Perhaps the site where it was found did not obtain permission to distribute the photo as part of their press release, but is it our responsibility to determine that? Every time I take a picture from a web-site that says it is a press release or can be used without restriction, I take it on face value, and the editors at Wikipedia take what I say and the source at face value. Why is this picture getting so much extra scrutiny? Also, I suspect the Iranian Student group is one of the more "liberal" organizations in Iran. I doubt that they publicized the execution and then didn't want anyone to re-publish the picture. -- Samuel Wantman 05:59, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

It got extra scrutiny because there was a big debate over it, when I took a look, I couldn't find jack as far as copyright info came up, source, etc. Thanks for rising to the challenge.--Tznkai 14:20, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

So what is the next step? Can the tag be removed and replaced with fair use? -- Samuel Wantman 20:07, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

I think so. We just need to have speicific justifications.--Tznkai 20:41, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Process

Having looked at the Wikipedia guidelines for establishing fair use this is where we are now (copied guidelines below, my comments in bold:

      1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
      2. the nature of the copyrighted work;
      3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
      4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The use is for non-profit informational purposes, the work was publicized by one of the propaganda arms of the Iranian government, it is used in full but there was no intent or effort on the part of ISNA to market the work so there is no provable financial harm.

   The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.[1]

On wikipedia a ten point process for deciding was developed , which can be a general guide in deciding. It is a guide only, and cannot replace legal advice, nor the four factors above. Below "Tag" means add the appropriate tag, as well as other required content such as the source or the detailed fair use claim.

1. Is the image a photograph?

   Yes - Go to 2.
   No - Go to 8.

2. Is the source of the copyright known?

   Yes - Go to 5.
   No - Go to 3.

3. Search for the source.

   Source found - Go to 5.
   Not found after thorough search - Go to 4.

4. Is the photograph so old that it is likely to be in the public domain?

   Yes - Tag {{fairold}
   No - Go to 6.

5. Try to contact the copyright holder and ask for a release under the GFDL.

   Permission granted - Tag {{GFDL}.
   Not granted (refused or no response) - Go to 6.

Tried to contact ISNA at info@isna.ir and received no response, we are at 6.

6. Is the photograph notably creative or artistic or is it the subject of a current news story (not a historical record)?

   Yes - Go to 7.
   No - Go to 10

We are at 7.

7. Does the nature of the image and source (if known) suggest it is intended for wide distribution (such as promotional images, devotional images)?

   Yes - Go to 10,
   No - Go to 9.

It was clearly intended for wide distribution, we are at 10.

8. Is the image one of the categories such as "book cover" or "screenshot"?

   Yes - Go to 10.
   No - Go to 9.

9. Can you (or someone else) recreate the image from free sources?

   Yes - Recreate.
   No - Tag {{ifd}.

10. Is the image placed in a relevant article and no larger than required for the web based article?

   Yes - Tag.
   No - Resize the image or write the article, and then tag.

It is both relevant and appropriately sized. Tagging and reinserting.

Cases where fair use may apply include:

   * Unique historical images which we cannot reproduce by other means

PS It most certainly is this. Haiduc 00:36, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Tagging

Don't forget to tag with fair use rational. [1]--Tznkai 01:11, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Important Historical Picture

This image must stay.

Okay, let us say that you delete pictures of historical value. Next, the Islamic Republic is overthrown tommorrow. Then in a few generations from now young Iranians might feel nostalgia about the Islamic regime because of a potential lack of incontrovertible evidence about the evils of this regime.

At the end of the day, one can only do a great disservice to the Iranian people if it deletes noteworthy historical images.--Patchouli 21:09, 22 July 2006 (UTC)