Talk:Ioan Potcoavă
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[edit] Article name
Yes, he is a character in a book by a Romanian author. But is this enough reason to keep a Ukrainian hero under a foreign name. Is the current name of the article better established in English. Otherwise, why should not we move it to Ivan Pidkova. --Irpen 03:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- Seconded. I find it dubious that his name is Romanian, as pidkova is the East Slavic word for horseshoe. --Ghirlandajo 12:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- Potcoava is romanian for horseshoe, and is derived from pidovka, and Ioan Potcoava is the romanian equivalent. The article, I think, started because he was on the list of Moldavian voivodes, a list that is curently being completed. I agree to renaming the article because we use the same policy with romanian names, but you should wait also for Dahn's opinion - the expert on Moldavian history. --Orioane 12:18, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- On the Talk page for Hetmans, I had added this:
- "Ivan Pidkova was a Moldavian Prince under the name "Ioan Potcoavă". Please, don't change his name on that page: most sources mention him as such, and note that he claimed to be a voivode's brother (and thus Moldavian/Romanian in name). I cited the Ukrainian variant, and linked the article to here. Could you please add the uk: category on the bottom of the page? I can't spell his name in Cyrilic. Thanks. "
- My points were:
- He claimed to have been Ioan Vodă's brother. Ioan (on which there is no article yet) did not ever present himself as Ukrainian. In fact, he was known as "Armeanul" ("the Armenian"). Does that mean that we have to change both of their names to Armenian?
- Ioan is known for his claim to the throne in Moldavia, most of that being reflected in the chronicles of the time. Most written documents about him as are in Romanian. Sure, most written documents about Montezuma are in Spanish, but Montezuma did not rule Spain! Also, the primary language of reference in documents other than Romanian would've been Church Slavonic, not Ukrainian.
- However, if you still feel that his main name should be Pidkova, then I'll accept it (I admit there are no popular ballads about him, and no monuments raised in his honour over on this side).Dahn 15:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
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- I think you made some good points and I am in no rush to move it. I will check around myself and let's also see what others would say. --Irpen 16:03, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
I think I've found a compromise: article name - Ivan Pidkova; first name mentined - Ioan Potcoavă.Dahn 23:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- I think we should check what name is more used in historical literature written in the English L and then decide on the article's name. I would refrain from moving the article until we figure this out. OTOH, the article content can be edited of course. --Irpen 23:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Stefan Bathory's statement
It would be nice to have a reference to the source concerning this statement.
In any case there should be a comment added that in fact Ruthenioans rather than Muscovites were the ethnic base of the Zaporizzia Cossacks.--AndriyK 09:52, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Care to google for at least 5 minutes before throwing tags. Within 3 minutes I found the citation is quoted from
- I. Nistor, ,,Basarabia", 10/1990, p.159.
Ion Nistor, was a chief ideologue of Greater Romanian nationalism in the early 20th century and in the interbellum and a fierce Ukrainophobe. You can read more on him in the Internet Encyclopedia of Ukraine as well as here in Chernivtsi University and Rumanization articles. The info in the statement is indeed dubious but the quote itself is taken from a historian's work. Please stop abusing tags. Nistor, while biased in interpretations, is an academic sholar and can be reasonably trusted on facts themselves. This is a too easy and lazy approach. At least care to look for the info before disrupting the articles and the other people's work with your tags. --Irpen 10:13, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Horseshoe
- His nickname is said to come from the fact that he used to break the horseshoes of his stallions when horseback riding.
Do we have any reference for that? Bogdan Petriceicu Hasdeu said that he was named "because he could break in his hand a horseshoe" ("fiindcă frângea între degete potcoava de cal"). bogdan 11:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
