Talk:Interstate 45

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Contents 1 Superfluous/incorrect comments 2 Boilerplate needs editing 3 Nonsense about US 75 becoming I-45 4 Exit list 5 Merge from Gulf Freeway

[edit] Superfluous/incorrect comments

This bullet point was recently left on the I-45 page by 71.240.164.85:

• Mile markers along US 75 in Texas are measured from the I-45 zero mile in Galveston, Texas, although exit numbers are currently measured as miles from downtown Dallas. The nearly $2.5 billion rebuilding of US 75 from Dallas to the Texas-Oklahoma border has been in progress in a non-stop sequence of phases since the late 1980s, including upgrading all at-grade intersections to interchanges or bridges, rerouting US 75 around the cities of Sherman and Dennison to meet Interstate standards, rebuilding the 1930s-era experimental pre-Interstate North Central Expressway to comply with modern Interstate standards, adding a subway 160 feet below the main lanes, and replacing the oversubscribed former interchange between US 75 and I-635 with a sprawling five-layer mixmaster, which is named High Five, which alone cost over $231 million, and which is composed of a gargantuan network of ramps supported on 733 piers. Once this multi-billion 20-year build-out of US 75 reaches conclusion upon the completion of High Five, US 75 will for the first time since its inception as an expressway in 1937 completely meet Interstate standards from downtown Dallas to the Texas-Oklahoma border. After that time a name change to I-45 would be increasingly likely.

Many statements are incorrect:

1. US 75 does not have mile markers. The poster is referring to signs that appear to be mile markers that start in Richardson, TX and continue sporadically as a driver heads northbound. In fact, these are Dallas District TxDOT maintenance markers. Simple math shows that these mile markers would count down to 0 at an arbitrary location north of Houston.
2. Exit numbers are sequential, not mile-based. They do not correspond to miles. That's why the numbering takes a huge leap when US 75 goes under 635. There used to be many more exits between downtown and I-635 than there are now.
3. There is no concerted effort to rebuild US 75 to interstate standards between downtown Dallas and the Oklahoma border for the sake of doing so. Several projects have take place recently, but they are all separate projects, and there are lenghty stretches that have not been rebuilt. By 1969, US 75 was freeway-standard north of McKinney[1].
4. The old North Central Expressway between downtown Dallas and I-635 is not 1930s-era[2], nor was it experimental per se.
5. The short segment of subway below US 75 is an entirely separate project by Dallas Area Rapid Transit (DART) and has nothing directly to do with US 75 except that it mostly parallels the roadway.
6. Dallas District TxDOT staff assure me that US 75 will be converted to I-45 no time soon because even the rebuilt sections do not meet interstate standards.

Novasource 04:37, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Boilerplate needs editing

This article begins like the articles for the other interstate highways, but the introduction is especially awkward for this interstate:

"Interstate 45 (abbreviated I-45 or in Texas IH-45) is an intrastate interstate highway located entirely within the state of Texas, United States. Like other interstates, it is commonly referred to as I-45."

Since the highway is entirely within Texas, the phrase "abbreviated I-45 or in Texas IH-45" seems to imply that the abbreviation for the highway must be "IH-45" -- especially to a non-US reader who is less familiar with the 'lingo'. And then the next sentence, "Like other interstates, it is commonly referred to as I-45", contradicts the implication in the sentence before it.

(Grammar nitpick -- what other interstates are commonly referred to as I-45?)

I'm not a Texan, so I'll leave the edit for someone else: I-45 or IH-45? Either or both?

--Heath 128.173.105.144 22:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Texans refer to it as I-45. The "IH" designation may just be a technical designation used internally by the TxDOT. It generally does not appear on signage.

Roadgeeks have a habit of fussing over irrelevant details like that. I vote to simplify the opening paragraph and remove the pointless wording.

Novasource 22:54, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I have finally removed that idiotic "IH" statement from all Texas interstate pages. Nova SS 18:17, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nonsense about US 75 becoming I-45

I am pretty sure the following bullet point, which I moved from the main page, is nonsense:

• ISTEA states that Oklahoma can submit U.S. Highways 69 and 75, from the Texas state line to Interstate 40 at Checotah, Oklahoma, as an Interstate at any time.^{[citation needed]} US 75 is controlled access from Dallas to the Oklahoma border, as is US 69 from McAlester to Muskogee. However, the 125 mile (201 km) segment in between mostly has at-grade intersections.

The ISTEA corridor which would allow this is Corridor 51. A cursory Google search on istea "corridor 51" turns up nothing to confirm this supposed fact.

Also, what does "submit as interstate" mean? Does a state need explicit legislative approval just to apply for a road to be an interstate highway? Nonsense!

Further Google searches only turn up uncited statements on roadfan sites that all appear to be communally-reinforced copies of each other.

I have spoken to engineers in the Dallas District TxDOT office about converting the Texas mileage of US 75 to I-45, and I have been assured that US 75 between Dallas and the Oklahoma border is not built to Interstate standards, partly because of an excessive number of exits, and that nobody at TxDOT is seriously pursuing this naming conversion. It would be strange for I-45 to exist from Galveston to Dallas, drop back down to US 75 to the OK border, then pick back up as I-45 to I-40 (presumably following US 69 after McAlester), then drop down to US 69 again.

Please do not move this back to the main page without a good citation (that isn't from those communally-parroted roadfan sites).

Nova SS 18:35, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exit list

#		Destinations	Notes
Old
		State Highway 87 east - Downtown; East Beach	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	1A	Image:Texas Spur 342.svg Spur 342 - 61st Street; 71st Street; Scholes International Airport; West Beach
	1B	71st Street	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	1C	Image:Texas FM 188.svg Farm to Market Road 188; State Highway 275 - Teichman Road; Harborside Drive
	4	Village of Tiki Island
	5	Frontage Road
	6	Frontage Road	no northbound exit
	7A	State Highway 3; State Highway 146 - Texas City; La Marque	northbound exit and southbound entrance
	7B	State Highway 6 - Bayou Vista; Hitchcock	northbound exit and southbound entrance
	7C	Frontage Road	northbound exit and southbound entrance
	7	State Highway 6; State Highway 146 - Texas City	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	8	Frontage Road
	10	Image:Texas FM 519.svg Farm to Market Road 519 - Main Street
	11	Vauthier Road
	12	Image:Texas FM 1765.svg Farm to Market Road 1765 - La Marque; Texas City
	13	Century Boulevard; Johnny Palmer Road; Delany Road
	15	Image:Texas FM 1764.svgImage:Texas FM 2004.svg Farm to Market Road 1764; Farm to Market Road 2004 - Mall of the Mainland Parkway; Hitchcock
	16	Image:Texas FM 1764.svg Farm to Market Road 1764 east - Texas City	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	17	Holland Road; Hughes Road
	19	Image:Texas FM 517.svg Farm to Market Road 517 - Dickinson; Alvin; Hughes Road
	20	Image:Texas FM 646.svg Farm to Market Road 646 - Santa Fe
	22	Calder Drive; Brittany Bay Boulevard (State Highway 96)
	23	Image:Texas FM 518.svg Farm to Market Road 518 - League City
	25	Image:Texas FM 528.svg Farm to Market Road 528; NASA Road 1 - Alvin; NASA
	26	Bay Area Boulevard - University of Houston Clear Lake
	27	El Dorado Boulevard
	29	Image:Texas FM 2351.svg Farm to Market Road 2351 - Friendswood; Clear Lake City Boulevard
	30	Image:Texas FM 1959.svg Farm to Market Road 1959 - Ellington Field; Dixie Farm Road
	31	Image:Texas FM 2553.svg Farm to Market Road 2553; Beltway 8 Frontage Road - Scarsdale Boulevard
	32	Sam Houston Tollway
	33	Fuqua Street; Beltway 8 Frontage Road
	34	Almeda-Genoa Road; South Shaver Road
	35	Clearwood Drive; Edgebrook Drive
14	36	Airport Boulevard; College Avenue
13	38	State Highway 3 - Monroe Road; Bellfort Avenue
12	38B	Howard Drive; Bellfort Avenue	southbound exit and northbound entrance
11	39	Park Place Boulevard; Broadway Boulevard
10	40A	Frontage Road	northbound exit and southbound entrance
10	40B	Interstate Highway 610 east to State Highway 225 - Pasadena	northbound exit and southbound entrance
10	40C	Interstate Highway 610 west	northbound exit and southbound entrance
9	40B	Interstate Highway 610 to State Highway 225; State Highway 35 south - Pasadena; Pearland; Alvin	southbound exit and northbound entrance
8	41A	Woodridge Drive
6	41B	U.S. Highway 90 Alternate - Broad Street; Griggs Road; South Wayside Drive
5	42	U.S. Highway 90 Alternate - South Wayside Drive	no northbound exit
4-6	43A	Telephone Road
3-5	43B	Tellepsen Street	northbound exit and southbound entrance
4	44A	Elgin-Lockwood; Cullen Boulevard	northbound exit and southbound entrance
2	44B	Spur 5 south
2-3	44C	Cullen Boulevard	southbound exit and northbound entrance
1-2	45	Scott Street; Downtown (Spur 5 north)	northbound exit and southbound entrance
1	45A	Scott Street	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	46A	U.S. Highway 59 north - Cleveland
	46B	U.S. Highway 59 south; State Highway 288 south - Lake Jackson; Freeport; Victoria
	47A	Allen Parkway
	47B	Houston Avenue; Memorial Drive	northbound exit and southbound entrance
	47C	McKinney Street	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	47D	Dallas Street; Pierce Street	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	48A	Interstate Highway 10 east - Beaumont (U.S. Highway 90 east)
	48B	Interstate Highway 10 west - San Antonio (U.S. Highway 90 west)
	49A	Quitman Street	southbound exit and northbound entrance
	49B	North Main Street; Houston Avenue
	50A	Patton Street	northbound exit and southbound entrance
	50B	Cavalcade Street; Link Road; Patton Street	exit 50 southbound
	51	Interstate Highway 610

Old exit numbers are rather strange - they didn't always match up on opposite sides. Here's what I have from 1973 and 1976 AAA Triptiks:

Northbound

• unnumbered Mosley Road?
• 13 Monroe Road
• 12 Howard Drive
• 11 Broadway Street
• 10 IH 610 east
• 10 IH 610 west
• 8 Woodridge Drive
• 7 Maxwell Lane?
• ? Wayside Drive
• 6 Telephone Road
• 5 Tellespen Street
• 4 Lockwood Drive
• 3 Cullen Boulevard
• 2 Scott Street
• 1 Pease Street; St. Joseph Parkway

Southbound

• 1 Scott Street
• 2 Cullen Boulevard; Calhoun Road (map shows two separate exits, but this photo disagrees)
• 3 Tellespen Street?
• 4? Telephone Road?
• 5 Wayside Drive
• 6 Griggs Road
• 7 Flowers Street?
• 8 Woodridge Drive
• 9 SH 35
• 10? Colgate Street?
• 11 Broadway Street
• 12 Howard Drive
• 13 Monroe Road
• 14 Airport Boulevard

[edit] Merge from Gulf Freeway

I am proposing that Gulf Freeway be merged into this article. The Gulf Freeway is just a section of Interstate 45. The article contains content that either 1. duplicates this article's content or 2. is information that would be highly relevant to this article.

The "Gulf Freeway" nomenclature should just be mentioned in the summary (it applies to I-45 between downtown Houston and Galveston), and the remainder of the aricle should be worked into this article's content.

Nova SS 19:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

And when this does occur, perhaps mention should also be placed that northbound in houston it is know as the North freeway. Feedloadr 14:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Northbound I-45 between Galveston and downtown Houston is known as the Gulf Freeway, and northbound (and southbound) I-45 north of downtown is the North Freeway. Nova SS 21:48, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Concur that Gulf Freeway should be merged into the Interstate 45 article. Quidam65 15:04, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Concur that Gulf Freeway should be merged into I-45 article. The Gulf Freeway article also appears to simply not be factual "Gulf Freeway may begin at this point" and similar references. --Kraft 06:17, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Concur as per stated arguments. It's almost October now, somebody want to do it? I would, but I'm terrible at merging. --MPD01605 (T / C) 18:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and did the merge. I don't know if I'm terrible at merging or not. If anyone can clean it up a bit more, please go ahead and do so. Thanks. Ufwuct 19:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)