Talk:Infidel? / Castro!

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The Behold... the Arctopus and Colin Marston entries have links to a non-existing Infidel?/Castro! entry, so I decided to create one. Also, there's incorrect songwriting credits on AllMusic.com and Answers.com and when I submitted my corrections to them they have virtually ignored me, so I figured this was a way to provide correct information to the world at large. ~ Trilonaut 09:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

You should provide information (and sources that show the band meets Wikipedia's WP:MUSIC guidelines. So far I don't see anything. CD-R does not sound very notable. ~ trialsanderrors 09:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The band should be on WP because:

• "Contains at least one member who was once a part of or later joined a band that is otherwise notable; note that it is often most appropriate to use redirects in place of articles on side projects, early bands and such."

Colin Marston of Behold... The Arctopus, Dysrhythmia (both well-known in their different genres) and Byla. Marston is also quite well-known as a record producer, he remastered Atheist's albums before they where re-released for example.

• "Has released two or more albums on a major label or one of the more important indie labels (i.e. an independent label with a history of more than a few years and a roster of performers, many of which are notable)."

They have released a double album (90 min+), Bioentropic Damage Fractal (released by Crucial Blast Records which i would call a major label or, at least, "one of the more important indie labels"), a split EP released by Epicene Sound Systems (also major or indie), a split EP released by Dead Mind Records (don't know, indie!? :)), Contre Tous, and two self-released full-length albums, Case Studies in Bioentropy and Infidelicacy.

/Richard Lionheart 16:18, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Also I found this: Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank: #171,517 in Music ([1]), it's MUCH better than #351,510 on Amazon.com anyway. :)

/Richard Lionheart 17:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Neither Amazon rank will help them very much. The "one important member" rule also says it might be better to mention side projects in the article about the member/main band. Crucial Blast is definitely not a major (that's the ones that for the RIAA). What other bands on Wikipedia have albums on Crucial Blast? ~ trialsanderrors 18:53, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Genghis Tron has a Wikipedia entry, and both of their albums are on Crucial Blast. Orthrelm and Behold... The Arctopus both have Wikipedia entries, and their split CD is on Crucial Blast. As for coverage in major publications, Infidel?/Castro! was featured in the magazines Unrestrained and Decibel. As for being on national radio for more than a half hour, I?/C! performed a 45-minute live set on WFMU, which is widely considered the premier independent radio station in the US. It's coverage include New York City and North Jersey, with a relay station covering Western Jersey and Eastern Pennsylvania and a webstream in multiple formats.::/Trilonaut16 August 2006

OK, fair enough. I removed the Prod tag and put up a sources tag instead. If you want to keep the article from being considered for deletion, you should add critical reviews from magazines (both positive and not so positive to make sure it complies with WP:NPOV). There is no actual content on the Allmusic site, and myspace sites are almost always discounted. The band webpage might be a source for info but you should not base everything in your article on it. There's also WP:VANITY to consider. Happy editing! ~ trialsanderrors 19:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Still says the same notability warning, not a sources warning, on my computer (I hit refresh, am I missing something?). I don't see any reviews on the Genghis Tron, Time of Orchids, Behold... the Arctopus or Orthrelm Wikis. I also don't see how they source their info. What would you consider a reliable source of info about a band? Interviews?

Done. Reliable is usually when a general interest music magazine runs an article on the band, rather than say a death metal magazine on a death metal band or a blog. Interviews are good as long as they're neutral in tone and not just gush pieces. Yeah, sadly we have many more editors who want to start articles than who want to source them. ~ trialsanderrors 19:46, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

How do I take out the spaces in the title of this article? It's Infidel?/Castro!, not Infidel? / Castro!. I do realize I'd have to change the links on the Colin Marston and Behold... the Arctopus entries accordingly. -- Trilonaut

From their own webpage it seems it's I? / C! [2] ~ trialsanderrors 23:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how you want me to credit the sources, but is a source:

http://www.live4metal.com/castro.htm

Here are possible reviews:

Neutral:

"With music as bizarre and perplexing as their name, INFIDEL?/CASTRO! have crafted what is likely to be one of the weirder albums you’ll come across in 2005. With a mix of Ambient, Electronic, Noise, samples, Post-Rock and a variety of other sounds that aren’t quite as easy to pinpoint." -- The Metal Observer (metal-observer.com)

Mildly Positive:

"The music is a cut-and-paste, slice-and-dice, electronic-ambient-grind-acoustic gridsplatter hyper-wired to run like a fleet of futuristic bullet trains that consistently go from 375 MPH to dead stops into the sides of uncharted planetary systems." -- Decibel Magazine (DecibelMagazine.com)

Mildly Negative:

"This isn’t so much an album one listens to as an ordeal one lives through. And while that remark might seem harsh, in fact I suspect it’s exactly what Infidel?/Castro! – actually, two men named Colin Marston and George Korein – intended." -- DPRP (dprp.net)

More Negative:

"2 discs. 14 songs. 1 exercise in jerkoffery. The world didn't need Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music then and most definitely doesn't need half-baked sequels now. Embarassing for all involved." -- Horrorwood Babbleon (horrorwoodbabbleon.com)

More Positive:

"Those of you looking for something different and “out there” will find this to be a tremendously intriguing record. This has quickly become one of my favorite records so far this year but if it you are looking for any sort of cohesiveness, melody, or even song structure than this is not what you are looking for. If you are looking for a band that pushes the limits of everything and succeeds than check this one out for sure." -- The Great Nothing (thegreatnothing.com) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Trilonaut (talk • contribs).

This is good stuff. If you want you can look at the article on Trials & Errors I created. It's about an album, but it works essentially from reviews I picked up online. More or less you should pick the ones from the best resources (long-standing and with a wide readership) and summarize some key phrases into a few sentences that explain the sound of I?/C! And oh, you can sign your messages on talk pages with four tildes: ~~~~. ~ trialsanderrors 07:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC)