Talk:Industrial rock

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[edit] Industial Rock VS Industrial Metal

Ok, I think the ammount of crossover entrys between IR and IM are getting very annoying to the point where they are affecting the quality of both articles. I think it is neccessary that a clear line between the two needs to be drawn, here is an example of what I mean:

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I know that this does sound rather pov, but given the ever growing confusion between these two article, it might be a good start to solving a potential long term confusion problem that both of these entrys are starting to suffer from. And yes it is correct that it is often hard to make a distiction between these two, but it would make a big difference if an effort was made here to help make a clear distinction. Avador 11:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

good work :) --MilkMiruku 16:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that Orgy belongs in Industrial Rock. --148.241.64.130 01:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I would say NIN is not industrial anything. Orgy as well. Also KMFDM has many songs/albums that could be classified as Industrial Metal, but they also have many songs/albums that sound more Industrial Rock. Ive never really heard the term "Industrial Metal" used with a serious face anywhere, or by anyone. I would technically say Industrial Metal and Industrial Rock are pretty damn similar. I mean if we are going to go and keep creating new geners why not Industrial Punk? KMFDM would certianly fit into such a catagory. I remember some older version of this wiki entry used to be pretty good. Then the NIN Fan came along and screwed up several sections. Also the "this band isnt Industrial Rock, its Industrial Metal" came along and screwed it up too. Someone should clean this up.

KMFDM, Skinny Puppy, Ministry I think are good examples of Industrial Rock. Bad examples would be Orgy, Manson, and Nine inch Nails. Besides the fact that they dont sound industrial rock, they defeat the whole idea that most if not all Industrial Rock bands are against the idea of Pop-Culture, and MTV. Where as Orgy Manson and NIN ready willingly and able sell out to such things. Its not a matter that these bands are popular and the other ones arnt. So dont even try and make that argument. Its a matter of what the genre represents, and its message, AND style. 68.66.232.107

This article seems to be getting WORSE every time I read it. I would like to see a revert to a much older version, perhaps as far back as a year ago. The real problem here is that the genre itself has never really had a solid definition, or too many strong examples of it. Nor has it ever been the preferred way for the artists themselves to refer to their music. I can think of examples of times when all 4 of the ones listed consistently on this page (NIN, Filter, Stabbing Westward, Gravity Kills) have said they preferred it called something else, though I couldn't cite any sources.

I changed the filter link to point to the right page instead of a disamb. page where the band was hidden in a see also section but is there any way to make it display as Filter and point to Filter_(band)?

1-2-06

I just fixed the link to artist Klute. However, I really don't think he belongs on this list; he is a drum'n'bass producer and I've never heard anything from him that sounded even remotely industrial rock.

1-5-06

  • You're right, the Klute listed on Wikipedia is a different person. The Klute being listed here is a side-project of Leæther Strip. Though the industrial Klute was first, it has recently changed its name to Klutæ, to avoid confusion with the now-better-known d'n'b producer. - Rynne 18:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Update: I just discovered that the industrial group Klute recently changed their name to Klutæ specifically to avoid such confusion. I've started a Klutæ stub to that effect. Also, Klutæ seems to be more industrial metal than industrial rock, so I'm gonna move it over there. - Rynne 00:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Klutæ is a pure electronic act with guitar-loops (sampled guitars). that's not an industrial metal act.
  • That is exactly what's described in industrial metal: "This term [i.e., industrial metal] is used quite loosely, describing everything from industrial bands sampling metal riffs to heavy metal groups augmented with sequencers." - Rynne 14:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry but in no way shape or form is KMFDM, Die Krupps, or PIG industrial rock, these belong in industrial metal.
Actually since KMFDM and PIG do not usually use "metal" guitar but mainly rock and roll guitar ala Guenter Schulz--mando 04:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't really consider "industrial metal" to be a real genre. The way I see it there's Industrial, which refers to older, more unconventional groups like Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten; Industrial-Rock which refers to bands like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, and KMFDM; Industrial-Dance or EBM for bands like Front 242 and Nitzer Ebb; and Post-Industrial for bands such as Rammstein, Orgy, God Lives Underwater, and Static-X. The "Rock" in Industrial-Rock just refers to the songwriting style. A band like Skinny Puppy may be mostly electronic, but their songs have more in common with Ministry than Front 242. The difference between Industrial-Rock and Post-Industrial is defined by a more accessible sound, and the "Industrial" qualities in those bands are more superficial, with many of these groups just being a rock band that uses synths. Industrial can also be used as a catch-all term for any of these styles.

As far as Nine Inch Nails, they could fit in either Industrial-Rock or Post-Industrial, but I would say they lean more to the latter.--Brian 2:51 PM, October 22, 2006 (Central Time)

[edit] Nine Inch Nails

Do you really think that NIN can be considered the archetype industrial rock group? Guitars on Pretty Hate machine are almost non-existent. Both KMFDM and Ministry predate NIN by many years. --mando 04:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

  • True, KMFDM and Ministry predate NIN; and Reznor has cited Ministry as an influence. However, as noted in the article, industrial rock is an offshoot of industrial metal—the latter being the genre in which Ministry and KMFDM are properly categorized. – Rynne 15:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Well I really don't like the part about "there were some early influences". They weren't really influencing the genre so much as they were inventing it. It seems as if some nin fan came along and switched it around to suit his preferences. What about Nine Inch Nails makes them industrial rock exactly? Sounds more like some synth pop to me.I think that milku guy will agree with me when I say KMFDM isn't really heavy enough to belong in industrial metal. Most of their early 90s late 80s stuff are just guitar sample thrown here and there, Ministry on the other hand is just pure in your face metal to me. Since KMFDM and PIG do not usually use "metal" guitar but mainly rock and roll guitar ala Guenter Schulz, I disagree with placing them in industrial metal. I think they should stay right here in industrial rock and the article should be rewritted to give credit where credit is due.-- 68.235.47.38 03:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

saying things such as arguably nin is the archetypal industrial rock band. This is obviously an opinion, not a fact. This goes against wikipedia's NPOV policy and therefore I'm adding a tag. -- 68.235.47.38 03:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh please, can someone fix this? NiN is not an archetype, and that word is certainly not NPOV. I also find the way "there were some early influces" worded to be pretty causal way of tossing away importance of. Where as a bands like KMFDM Ministry, etc are far more important to Industrial Rock, since these are some of the very bands that CREATED it. NiN did not create anything about industrial rock, and perhaps thats not a NPOV by me, but they certainly are no Archetype, and shouldnt be refered to as such. 68.66.232.107 11:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Exactly, some NIN fan came a long and decided to give credit where credit is not due. KMFDM and MINISTRY both INVENTED the genre. Songs by KMFDM such as VIRUS, DON'T BLOW YOUR TOP, and GODLIKE all predate NIN by many years. DON'T BLOW YOUR TOP and THE LAND OF RAPE AND HONEY were released in 1988 when Trent was busy doing his Synthpop stuff trying to rip off Gary Numan. Every time I try to edit this page somone comes along and changes it. -68.235.32.111|mando 02:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

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