Talk:Indo-Pakistani War of 1965
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/Archive 1 September 22, 2004 — January 19, 2006
/Archive 2 January 19, 2006 — August 2, 2006
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[edit] Too many quotations in the article
There are too many extracts from other publications in this article. These make the article too long and distract from the rest of the text. I vote that the extracts shold be moved to another page iafguru 20:47, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] I thought neutrality means a view point from both sides?
Strange to see all the references are pointing to Indian sources. I was quite confused why all the pictures depicted Indian Victories, whereas the outcome of the war a stalemate as suggested? Clearly, the article is overly biased against Pakistan. An introduction of the Pakistani side of the story is the only solution, whether hawkish indian elements like it or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by MaverickInUrFace (talk • contribs).
You are welcome to make the article NPOV. Just read the various Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines. Cheers -- Lost(talk) 10:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gross amount of Indian Propaganda
All I have to politely say is that this article is not neutral, LOL. Napoleon12 7:05, 08 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Article is Just not more than Indian Pov
it seems that this is page by an indian writer on 1965 war and proving his/her pov through more and more of Indian pov ref.Pl look into it before removing the Npov tag.Yousaf465
- Bulk of the references are from neutral or Pakistani sources. Take a good look. Idleguy 17:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
if the bulk of the sources are from a neutral or Pakistani sources then why the pov of the article is shifted in favour of India.And why there is a victrous tone towrds indian's army and pakistani miltitary being described as only saved by mircale.Yousaf465
- How about reading the bulk of the sources first before questioning the neutrality? Idleguy 05:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
What the hell is this "Map showing Indian administered Kashmir in shades of orange and Pakistan held kashmir in green hues.Yousaf465
- The map is correct, the "held" has been renamed to "administered" for NPOV.--Idleguy 05:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
- Yousaf, it will be much more helpful if you point out specific sentences that you object to, instead of going on adding the template at the top of the article. Infact you can go ahead and make the article NPOV yourself. Do keep in mind that this does not count as making an article NPOV. It just converts it to your POV. -- Lost(talk) 07:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Marked the article as not neutral
I agree with all the comments above that it is clear from reading the article that the author is Indian and is trying to twist and turn the picture towards India's side and i see no need of doing so. It's 2006 and we are (supposed to be) open minded people here, I don't think that the young(er) generation of Indians or Pakistanis hate each other as the elders did. So just state facts, this is wikipedia not the National television of either Pakistan or India where you try to promote your own country and try to portray the war as a win for your country.
For any neutral non-indian AND non-pakistani reviewer reading these comments, kindly just note that more than 80% citations of the article are by indian authors and the current text of this article takes bits and pieces from different sources (mostly out of context) and reports them in a manner to convey a clear underlying impression that the war was a win for India which should not be the purpose of the article. We are not here to judge who won or who lost but are only interested in the facts.
Muneeb.ali 15:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
- I hope you'd read sources thoroughly before you jump into such conclusions. I'm surprised you should claim 80% are from Indian authors when it's quite the opposite. Just about a quarter are from Indian sources. btw, if you have to tag then you'd need to specify the POV lines that aren't sourced and not tag the entire article as POV. Idleguy 18:36, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Totally Biased Article: Needs Alot Of Work
I have added POV tags to the article because this article is Harry potter Vs J R R Tolkien
For instance the main map in the warbox shows Aksai Chin as part of India, In 1962 China in the Sino-Indian War Liberated Aksai Chin, thus by 1965 the area of Aksai Chin was administered by China not India, Therefore the map is totally incorrect and infact is loaded with political propaganda.
Second, there is zero mention of the 'Air war of 1965', There is mention of the Land forces, Bombing of Dwarka but zero mention of the Air war, I find this unfortunate as the PAF mauled the Indian airforce, There should be a section included on the Air war.
Third, the Losses section is completely biased, it makes no mention of the arms and support Pakistan recieved from Indonesia, Turkey, China, and the fact that the USSR and the USA put military sanctions on BOTH nations.
Lastly the article gives the impression especially in the end that if the war continued it would have been an Indian gain, this is nonsense, its like saying had Hitler not invaded USSR and instead focused on West-Europe it would have been an Axis victory, We can only comment on what actually happened not what could have happened.
Also please note that it says that the navies of both nations 'play no significant role', this is nonsense, the Indian navy played no role but the Pakistan navy undertook the daring operation Dwarka, so it should be changed to 'The Indian navy played no siginificant role'. S Seagal 11:45, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- The article is still a work in progress. I'm collecting information on the air warfare and you'd be surprised to know that there was no mauling you claim. Maybe in Pakistan the propaganda continues. But facts will speak for themselves; there is no need to get excited based on assumptions. The map needs editing as it's wrong and actually doesn't need to be put in the top, but that is no reason to tag the entire article as POV. Well informed opinions based on military comparisons about the future outcome isn't nonsense, especially when multiple neutral sources confirm the same. Op Dwaraka was an insignificant one indeed considering the enormity of the war. A lesser or limited scale conflict and maybe op dwaraka would have been considered relatively significant. From past interactions with you like calling the 2001 border conflict of India and Bangladesh as a "war", it appears you are again making a mountain of a molehill. I suggest you contribute positively by editing the articles citing reliable sources, instead of just pasting the same 4 tags across all pages you don't personally like. Idleguy 14:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Idleguy, its not my fault India was defeated in the 1965 war, It happened before I was even born. There is a document in the museuem called the 'Tashkent Declaration' you might want to read it. 1 billion Hindus of India still can not win against a little country called Pakistan, Too add insult to injury the country today that is Pakistan sits on what was once the ancient seat of Hinduism and Sikhism, I know it must feel terrible, if a Hindu state was carved out of Muslim land and included the cities of Mecca and Medina i would also be just as bitter as an Indian.S Seagal 21:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)S Seagal
- Dude, Hinduism is a distributed religion. No single book, place or prophet can claim tto be "sole seat" or ancient seat. Nobody gives a fig that pakistan is in Pakistan. Hindus dont have hangups like muslims. Coming to the 65 War, If India was defeated, exactly how many square meters or km of territory are you holding now from that war? answer ZERO. jaiiaf 21:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
- Actually, S Seagal, I think it's time you stopped behaving like your moniker's namesake Steven Seagal and started learning history instead of propaganda stunts. fyi, I'm not a hindu or sikh so I don't know what point you're trying to make. Just because many muslims like you "know it must feel terrible" that Israel was carved out including Islam's third holiest place - Jerusalem, doesn't mean every religion's follower has the same bitter feeling that you or most Paks might have over Israel. Idleguy 04:13, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This article is about the 1965 war between India and Pakistan, Can you please stay on topic?, This is a talk page not a forum, or platform for you to stand on and lecture others. Why are you dragging Israel and the Arab-Israeli dispute here is beyond me. As for 'propaganda stunts', boy if that isnt the pot calling the kettle black. Here I am making contributions to Wikipedia starting articles such as Pakistani Nationalism, Indo-Bangladesh War of 2001, and what do I get? Barnstars? appreciatation? no I get Idleguy following me article to article.
This is my last message here, I will make changes to the articles as per the rules when I have time, we can discuss the issues when and if they arise, I'm not wasting anymore time on you two. S Seagal 04:34, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Why bring in religion in the first place, when you know you're likely to get burnt? First you talk about some loss of hindu "ancient seat" unrelated to this article, but when I pointed out the Jerusalem issue, you get agitated with facts. Kinda strange. So far you have only indulged in trolling and needless stories and personal opinions on the war and hardly any factual contributions. So please do edit with sources and don't just indulge in historical falsification. And no, your edits are not worth being stalked. Idleguy 04:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] INDIAN PROPANGANDA
This article is clearly written by Indian propangandists trying to underscore Pakistan’s military successes. NOT A SINGLE PAKISTANI WAR PICTURE.
YES, VERY NEUTRAL. LOL. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.117.92.54 (talk • contribs).
