Talk:Indie (music)

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[edit] A list of bands

Hey, how about a list of Indie bands, shall i add one? Heck, i just do it

We have a List of indie rock artists. Putting a list here would be problematic, since this article is more about "indie" as a concept in music. That's why only the genres associated with it are listed. WesleyDodds 23:30, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indie music

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense:

"Meanwhile, major labels often retain independently-oriented artists who are given greater creative independence, and who receive considerable critical acclaim. Some notable major-label artists of this sort include Radiohead, Pulp and The Flaming Lips."

Is the meaning here that majors sometimes signs indie bands? Then it should just say so. Do all indie bands on majors get creative independence? No, of course not, and they don't necessarily receive considerable critical acclaim either.

The list of examples seems chosen at random, better candidates would be Husker Du (the first, more or less), Sonic Youth (the most discussed in indieworld), Nirvana (biggest unit shifter) and Royal Trux or Melvins (most unlikely). --The User Formerly Known As 83.91.204.14 4 june 2005

  • The meaning was more that independence of the Big Four major labels is not necessarily a cut-and-dry predictor of artistic independence, significance or merit. AFAIK, Radiohead were never technically an indie band, but signed straight to EMI, and Pulp and The Flaming Lips released some of their arguably most significant work on major labels; with Nirvana, it was more a case of a major buying out a band after their big success, which is not what I was getting at here. I've added Sonic Youth though. Acb 08:51, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

Many aspects of the article are POV - for example the arbitrary placement of Vancouver at the top of the 'scenes' list - perhaps it should just be a list of links to individual 'scene' pages?? Also, it calls Pitchfork 'facist' at one point. 69.194.210.224 06:52, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, there's no reason Toronto shouldn't be on here - I'm not "indie" enough to know all the bands, but I know Broken Social Scene has a massive buzz all around North America. 69.194.210.224 06:54, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

The scenes are basically a small sampling that whatever editors chose to write about over the years, often with favoritism showing through. I actually cut and pasted that section from the Indie rock page because it makes more sense being placed here, but certainly feel free to heavily rewrite the sections since they're not of the best quality. I've been working on these pages but there's still a lot of work that can be done. WesleyDodds 11:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree that toronto should be on the list.

[edit] Thanks

thank you for adding to "Indie as a lifestyle" and refining the ideas inside

[edit] "dance punk" and indie dance

Is dance punk really an offshoot of indie dance, or an independent evolution? What exactly is "DC Punk"? And what specifically does "dance punk" in this context refer to? Atari Teenage Riot? LCD Soundsystem? Acb 23:56, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

The DC punk movement started in washington,DC and was the birth place of Straight Edge. dance punk refers to bands like VHS or Beta, The Killers, and the Bravery. I am not sure if it is an offshoot or an evolution JCS 20:28, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

  • If so, you should link it for those who aren't familiar with that particular scene. Also, a better place for that may be in the Indie dance article than the Indie (music) article. Acb 13:55, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Shameless Promotion

I think that there's some shameless promotion of the iPod here. Is that necessary? I just want to call attention to it.--Seth Goldin 29 June 2005 16:13 (UTC)

I have changed the following sentence:
"Somewhat contradicting this, portable digital audio players such as the iPod have become popular with some adherents of indie music, because of the practical benefit of carrying one's record collection in one pocket"
to its current state to avoid the use of the term ipod, which seems to have become synonomous with the term 'mp3 player' which is, ultimately, incorrect. hope this is better. --allthesestars 04 July 2005 14:29 BST
Wouldn't it be better to use the term "portable music player"? MP3 isn't the only format, and it's even rarely used in music stores, which typically want to add copyright protection. I think it's bad to make "MP3" define portable music, but unfortunately most people do, so I guess this is a question of using popular terminology (to aid understanding) instead of correct, accurate terminology that may slow interpretation by the common people. -Wild Bill 19:44, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Logic and Clarity

Indie (music) and Indie Rock pages need to be either merged into a more comprehensive and elegant whole (both pages are too narrow in scope and lacking in clarity), OR developed into seperate and distinctive articles. Indie (music) should be much broader in scope than it is, and Indie Rock should be more accurate and focused.---bobo 01:38, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

  • I agree, I think maybe a more in depth article regarding the "indie" ethos would help maxcap 18:21, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

The anonymous edits made recently from 82.211.70.18 were made by me; I didn't notice that I wasn't logged in until after I had made them.

The article seems to have attracted a lot of unnotable links at the end, with people adding their favourite web sites as long as they can be (in most cases) related to indie music. I have pruned a lot of those off, including all the radio shows. If there is a list of indie-music-related radio shows in Wikipedia, it should have its own page, rather than being attached to the bottom of a somewhat more abstract article about the philosophy and cultural connotations of the term "indie" when applied to music.

I also contend that the NME and Xfm do not belong in this article given how they are not unambiguously examples of "indie" culture. NME, these days, is mostly geared towards the superficial trappings of what is called "indie" (typically imitations of New Wave and garage rock), whereas Xfm is just another commercial radio stations, whose playlists are controlled by advertisers' considerations, only geared towards a more "alternative" audience. Acb 17:05, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

Amended the following to sound less condescending: "...and where commercial production teams often deliberately affect a fashionably 'lo-fi' sound." The insinuation here is that indie really is less affected, less subject to "fashion," than is pop.--WadeMcR 08:04, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uses of the word "indie" other than the literal

This article dismisses any non-literal use of the word indie as completely wrong, which I don't think is the case. I think it should maybe say that indie is commonly used to mean a particular sound or music scene, without actually saying that those that use the term in this way are mistaken. The article should highlight that even though this is not indie as it is literally defined, it is not always intended to be used as such. What if the article shit said that shit is defined as excrement, and any other use of the word is wrong? I think, as it stands, this article is very POV, and should be altered. --Nathan (Talk) 02:23, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

Look at the "Indie and Genres" section. --Bk0 (Talk) 02:50, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I've read that, anything before that is different:
"The term "Indie" is often confused with a sound that a musician presents when it is in fact the way that sound is presented or made." I'm going to change this sentence and probably a few others to make it less POV and more consistent with the rest of the article. If anyone has a problem with that, it can be discussed here and possibly reverted. --Nathan (Talk) 12:22, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the section stating that Australians refer to their indie kids as coolsies. I've known the Sydney indie scene for many years, and have never heard that term. -- H.J.M, 8th February 2006.

[edit] Rumoved vacuous statement

I've removed this:

"In terms of music, many adherents of indie collect vinyl records, and consider them to be more "authentic" than more recent and convenient music formats such as CDs. Paradoxically, items such as MP3 players have also become popular, if only to some of the adherents of indie music, because of the practical benefit of carrying one's record collection in one's pocket. In such cases, the cachet gained by being able to express one's taste in music sometimes trumps the value of the authenticity of vinyl."

In other words, this is saying "Indie fans like vinyl and mp3s" or "Indie fans don't like CDs". Is this really a valid point?

[edit] Indie Scenes

This section needs to be more global and should probably be split into another article. maxcap 13:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I merely moved it here a while ago from the Indie rock article since it really made no sense there, so if you feel it should be its own article, split it off. Or tri it down to just a few scenes. WesleyDodds 20:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Moved indie scenes to Indie music scenesmaxcap 20:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Authority for Statistic

I'm wondering where the "1 in 10 records makes a profit" statistic comes from. I have been searching the Net for a long time and I can't seem to find any real evidence that this is true. From what I can gather it's an accepted illusion on the part of the major's to ensure the continued support of governments in extending copyright terms. Anybody know any different? Geoffrey


[edit] Links edit

There are two audiences for indie music as a concept. One audience is indie music fans. Another audience are indie musicians. Some of the focus is lost on this page. By my research, I'm adding two sites that turned out to me useful to me as a musician. One is from CDBaby, which is written by a guy who is probably the most respected person in the indie music scene: Derek Sievers. Another is one of the only useful guides I've run across that's free released under the creative commons: The indie band survival guide. Maybe the external links should be broken into links for the two audiences. Thoughts?

Links are not supposed to be about what the "audience" of an article is looking for. They are supposed to enhance the subject. Many links added violate this policy (posted at WP:External links)

[edit] Record Labels

Hi. I'd just like to say fuck the recording industry and fuck record labels. Fuck the RIAA.

[edit] Weird Links

And I'd just like to say, what's up with the links? I understand Pitchfork, but Independent Music Online? Also, the stuff above that the person suggests does in fact enhance the subject. This Online thing really doesn't. I don't getit, but that's my two cents. Other than that mistake keep up the good work. Indie all the way!!

Speaking of links, I removed the link to http://www.26unsignedbands.com, since this site is devoid of any meaningful content, and really has nothing to do with the concept of indie. Newport 63 13:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misleading Information Edit

Made a few edits of material in the first half of the article that could be perceived as misleading/false. Several of them were in opposition to the second half the of the article which seemed to be far more accurate.

1. Major labels very rarely allow their signed artists the same level of creative freedom an independant label does...even a large label like Sub Pop. In fact, creative freedom is one of the main factors in distinguishing an independant label from a corporate label. To imply otherwise can be seen as deliberately misleading. Removed/edited the text with those implications.

2. Several bands listed that were actually major label artists. The Strokes have nothing to do with indie music. Removed that text.

3. Despite the fact larger indie labels do go to greater lengths in the promotion and acquisition of their artists over smaller labels, there's still a notable difference in how a large independant label operates from a business standpoint as opposed to a major label. Trying to blur the line and make the two out to be subtantially the same also seems disingenuous. Did some editing of that section.

4. The usage of the term indie in the 90's was not often used to refer to British bands that were actually major label artists - at least not in North America. Just like today, it referred to musicians with releases that were on independant record labels. Made a few edits to that section.

Actually, you're wrong about no.4; in England "indie" has had clear genre connotations since the mid-80s; it's a term basically synonymous with alternative rock in general, not just indie rock. For example, John Harris' book on Britpop uses the phrase often and never uses "alternative". Even then, this page isn't about "indie" as a genre term, rather as a concept in underground music. WesleyDodds 06:03, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Definition

The best definition I've heard for indie is "a genre of music which you only learn about from someone slightly cooler than yourself". Aaadddaaammm 10:14, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

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