Talk:Indiana

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[edit] Wikipedia Official Policy

From page WP:V

1. Articles should contain only material that has been published by reputable sources.
2. Editors adding new material to an article should cite a reputable source, or it may be challenged or removed by any editor.
3. The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it.

Be bold! Feel free to remove ANYTHING that doesn't have a footnote, because it's not vandalism - it's simply removing prohibited original research. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 04:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just a small thing to change

Hello; I just wanted to suggest changing a small thing in the page that mentions Bedford as being the 'home area' of astronaut Gus Grissom. While this is technically correct, the (small) city that Gus Grissom came from, Mitchell, and the city of Bedford don't really like each other. I lived in Mitchell for years, and Bedford and Mitchell were certainly rivals, and Mitchell is very proud of Gus Grissom. So I'd suggest changing to perhaps say something like 'limestone quaries of Bedford (which is near in location to the home of Gus Grissom') or something like that. Thanks! ~Adrianna

I thought this was going to be about me for a while there.  :D I'll look into altering. For the record, I'm from Jeffersonville.--Bedford 04:39, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Awesome, thanks a bunch. 'Lawrence County' works perfectly. :D ~Adriana

[edit] That table

That table really needs fixing. I'd do it, but I'm bad with tables. xyzzyva

[edit] Evolution of the Hoosier

Can anyone clear up the confusion to the evolution of the Hoosier? The noun, not the people. toby2080

No. Nobody has ever been able to clear up the "Hoosier question". There is a lot of speculation, some better than other, but no definite answer.

I've heard stories all my life ranging from the plausible to the fanciful. One of the former says that it comes from the pronunciation of "Who's here?" in the southern part of the state. One of the latter says that it comes from a barroom brawl in the frontier days where one of the brawlers' ears was cut off and someone held it up and said "Who's ear?" I doubt that it will ever be resolved.--MarshallStack 04:36, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Instead of "Who's Here?", I've always been told it was "Who's there?", which was what people in the southern part of the state would say when they heard a knock at their doors. --Stainedecho October 18, 2006

In the book:
Kleber, John E., et al. (editor) (2000). The Encyclopedia of Louisville. University Press of Kentucky. ISBN 0813121000.
it is stated that the term comes from the 1833 poem "The Hoosier's Nest" by John Finley. That being said, it also states that Finley does not explain the origin of the word Hoosier. The article says that the origins are obscure and lists some theories. The first listed is that the word "Hoozer" (stated to be an English dialect word meaning anything unusually large) evolved to be a description of an unpolished person which could have applied to early pioneers. The second possibility is it being a derivitive of "Who's there". A third possibility listed is that it is derived from the word "husher" which refers to an Indiana settler who can easily defeat an opponent. The fourth possibility listed is that a Louisville contractor named Sam Hoosier favored Indiana workers and that those workers were called "Hoosier Men". --Chris24 02:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Additional time zone information.

This newspaper piece seemed particularly relevant to the time zone section of this article. -- Beland 07:24, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


Timezone trivia-- For many years Spencer County has been in the Central zone and has used DST, yet St Meinrad Archabbey, located in the county and a major employer of the folk in its area, has used Eastern time without DST. As I am far removed from Indiana these days I don't know how this year's timezone tournaments may have affected Spencer and St Meinrad. Jm546 23:15, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I am originally from Elkhart County - born/raised in Goshen and lived in Elkhart. South Bend/Mishawaka/Osceola/Elkhart/Goshen have effectively grown together into one metropolitan area that covers two counties, Elkhart and St. Joseph. There is much commuting between the two counties. Now St. Joseph County may be put into the Central Time Zone. This would effectively split a metropolitan area into two time zones and make commuting interesting, to say the least. Of course, Niles, Michigan, is regarded almost as a northern suburb of South Bend and since Michigan has observed Daylight Savings Time for many years, it will also affect people who live in SB and work in Niles, or vice-versa. Indiana's time zones are going to be crazier than ever.--MarshallStack 04:32, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


I added a bit about which counties are now on Central and which are still on Eastern, along with a link to a new timezone map produced by the Indiana Chamber of Commerce. It might be useful to place the map on this page, but I'm not sure about copywrite issues. ONUnicorn 21:35, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

One factural error & update: Only Pulaski [sp?] voted to declare home rule and stay on Eastern Time. (The other county just passed a resolution supporting all of South West Indiana [including the counties that had always been on Central], switch to Eastern.) Earlier this week, after the DOT said they would refer this to DOJ, Pulaski [sp?] reversed the decision, saying the govt office would observe CDT and "encouraged" the county residents to follow EDT. (And at the same time, making their office hours one hour earlier effective the date of the time change.) 168.166.196.40 14:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

As a netural observer, the fight over Eastern vs Central makes little sense to me; it's the least signficicant time zone boundary in the country due to the entertainment industry. In Eastern, prime time is 8 - 11 PM; in central it's 7 - 10 PM. 168.166.196.40 14:52, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Liberal" vs "Democratic" Northern Indiana

I reverted the change from "Democratic" to "liberal". I am a native of Elkhart County and I can tell you it is most certainly not "liberal", outside the college communities of Notre Dame, Goshen College (both of which have a large percentage of non-native students) and Indiana University - South Bend.

South Bend itself is heavily Democratic but the outlying areas of St. Joseph County lean Republican. South Bend itself has had mostly Democratic mayors but Mishawaka has had mostly Republican mayors. Osceola, which borders Elkhart County, is safely Republican. I worked there for several years.

Elkhart County is as Republican as anywhere else in the state, due in part to the fact that the owners of most of the large RV corporations live there, and the Republican Party tends to be pro-management. I left there in 1999 but at that time the Democratic Party had closed its Elkhart County office. The counties east of Elkhart County, LaGrange and Steuben, are heavily Republican. West of St. Joseph County, LaPorte County often swings between Republican and Democratic dominance. Lake and Porter counties are primarily Democratic.--MarshallStack 05:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

There is rather too much POV in the Politics section. (It incorrectly links conservatism to the KKK, fundamentalism and farming. Well, no. The KKK died out pretty fast. Farming took longer but it's mostly gone, and the farmers never were conservative. The state's religion is not especially fundamentalistic. In fact the state is competitive and leans Republican, apart from presidential elections. (When the state was agrarian, those presidential elections were very close indeed). I suggest the GOP tilt in the north comes from the German element, which switched to the GOP when local hero Willkie ran in 1940. Rjensen 12:17, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I was born and have lived all my life in Indiana and speak from experience. I grew up in the South Bend/Mishawaka/Elkhart/Goshen metro area and now live in a small town near Indianapolis. The small towns are very, very Republican. As someone of German descent myself, I would disagree with the comment that the GOP tilt in the north comes from the German element. Many of the German-descended people in the north are Amish or Mennonite, which I come from indirectly. The Amish and Old Order Mennonites (my grandmother was OOM) usually do not vote, and mainstream Mennonites tend to vote Democratic because they perceive the GOP to be the "war" party and contrary to their pacifist beliefs. I left Elkhart County in 1999 and at that time the Democratic Party had closed its office there simply because Elkhart County is so overwhelmingly Republican. As for the KKK, they are still active and hold rallies, though the pro-Klan attendance is minimal. They also have/had a "training camp" in rural St. Joseph County near Osceola that the St. Joseph County Sheriff's Department has received many complaints about. This is near where I grew up so again I speak from experience. And farming is still very much an influence in Indiana, especially in employment policy; the Indiana Farm Bureau is a very strong lobby in the state legislature. --MarshallStack 05:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Relatedly, that US 30 thing strikes me as just bizarre. I grew up in West Lafayette, now live in Chicago, and have mucked around all over the state my entire life. It's true that northwest Indiana is its own thing. But Fort Wayne is without question the most conservative large city in the entire state, and I see no cultural difference, aside from the Old Order communities, between northeast Indiana and the rest of the state. So I see nothing special about US 30 as a line of demarcation--and in fact I've never heard of such a thing until I read it here.

(Oh, and by the way, unrelatedly, there's probably an explosion in the Hispanic community in every city in the state. East Chicago is now practically all Hispanic. Lafayette now has a huge Mexican community--there's one elementary-school district in the city where the Mexican community is now in fact in the majority. And there's now even a big Mexican community in Frankfort, of all places. It's one of those surprising but important demographic changes, this recent appearance of significant Hispanic communities in small Midwestern towns (particularly Hoosier ones). So it seems weird to talk about Elkhart in particular in this respect, doesn't it? I'd just go and make the change, but I don't have hard data to back myself up.

--Mrpy 05:23, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  • Yes, there are Hispanic communities springing up everywhere except for here in Western Indiana, it seems. But, per capita, I haven't seen a growth in it like I have in Goshen/Elkhart. When I was growing up there as a kid in the 1970s, it was mostly German/Dutch majority - now it's increasing Hispanic majority.--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Also, as far as US 30 goes, maybe I should have used US 6, but I'll stick by my decision. I have some experience in Fort Wayne, as I was in the Air National Guard unit there. Incidentally, people in my unit often referred to Decatur - south of Fort Wayne - as "Decaturtucky", and others agreed with me about US 30. Yes, Fort Wayne is conservative, but outside of Bloomington I don't think you'll find anywhere in Indiana that is genuinely "liberal" - after all, Fort Wayne has a military installation and is home to Concordia Seminary, which is part of a conservative Lutheran denomination (Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod).--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm speaking from my own experience as the north viz. the southern part of the state. I was born in Goshen, lived in Elkhart and worked in South Bend. Now I live just off I-70 between Indianapolis and Terre Haute and have since 1999 (thank God we're moving to Michigan next year, this place is hell). Northern Indiana (and again maybe I should have used US 6 rather than US 30 as a demarcator) is definitely more like Chicago and Michigan. This part of Indiana is more like the Deep South - radio being largely limited to country and Rush Limbaugh unless you're near Indianapolis or Bloomington, Confederate flags and all. Kind of like a Jeff Foxworthy/Bill Engvall/Larry The Cable Guy joke come to life - except it's not a joke.--MarshallStack 16:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pendleton a suburb?

Pendleton is a small rural community of about 3,800 people, and it is located about 30 miles away from Indianapolis. I really don't think it should be listed under "suburbs of Indianapolis." Also, I added Zionsville as a suburb.Spuddy 17 07:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The definition of "suburbs" and what is considered "metropolitan Indianapolis" is constantly changing. Putnam County (county seat: Greencastle, home of DePauw University), about half an hour west, is now considered part of metro Indy, at least by the Indianapolis news media.--MarshallStack 05:23, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Indiana Crops

[edit] Source for history section

The "History" section was taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia. [1] It's in the public domain, but the source should be noted somewhere appropriate. I seem to recall a template for this purpose, but I can't think of it at the top of my head. – Minh Nguyễn (talk, contribs) 23:58, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Interestingly enough, it's {{catholic}}. :-) I found it at Wikipedia:Template messages/Sources of articles. The page says to place it near the bottom of the article. Rfrisbietalk 01:04, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
I started a References section and placed the template there. Rfrisbietalk 02:09, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Timezone map.

Until the other day, the timezone section had an image of a US timezone map with Indiana greyed out to show "Indiana Eastern Time". That map has now been updated to a current timezone map showing Indiana in the Eastern Timezone.

I don't want to revert, or start an edit war, especially since the current map is, well, current and correct. However, I think the old map, showing Indiana greyed out, should still be in this section of the article because it is of historical interest or could be in the future. A while ago I somewhat re-wrote the timezone section, making the explanation of Indiana's timezone controversy past tense, but not deleting it because I feel that, although the days of "Indiana Time" are behind us (for now at least), it is still an important and interesting historical process that people studying Indiana (perhaps school children who have to do a report on a state) should learn about.

If we were going to simply talk about the way Indiana is now, it would be sufficiant to say that Indiana is on Eastern time, and have the current U.S. map someplace near the introduction of the article as it is with most states. We wouldn't need a whole section on timezones. We might, however, have a footnote about the few counties that observe central.

What do other editors think? Should we; 1. Restore the old timezone map with a caption saying this is how it used to be. 2. Use the current map and rewrite the section to be more about the current timezones and elminate a lot of the historical information about how Indiana Time came to be. 3. Have both maps, a sort of before & after deal. 4. Eliminate the timezone section entirely.

Or am I making a big deal about nothing? I'm thinking the best course is probably 3... but would like some more feedback. ONUnicorn 14:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Why lose history? Considering the main history section only goes up to 1860, how about adding a subsection under Time zones with a pertinent narrative and image? The narrative could cite the beginnings of U.S. time zones and all the major changes to Indiana time zones. One image just before the most recent change probably would be enough, unless there's an image of the very first set of time zones available. Rfrisbietalk 14:40, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Gas City; terror:

According to Homeland Insecurity, Gas City's {ice &/or roller?} skate rink[s] is|are more likely to be terror-attacked than Liberty Island. How do they know this?

I'm looking f/ articles about this terror-assessment.

Hopiakuta 18:49, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


I would like more detail here; but, I'm ignorant:

The area was claimed for New France in the 17th century, handed over to the Kingdom of Great Britain as part of the settlement at the end of the French and Indian War, given to the United States after the American Revolution, soon after which it became part of the Northwest Territory,


As well as here:


known as the Illinois County of the Commonwealth of Virginia, then the Indiana Territory, and joined the Union in 1816 as the 19th state.

[edit] Pioneer Era: 1816-1860

&, there's:


Indiana, meaning the "Land of the Indians,"

Is there a page to discuss how such names affect indigenous Americans? & Indians?

Well, I guess that this does some of it: Native American name controversy.

Hopiakuta 19:19, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] City & town importance ratings by population & location

I'd like to suggest a rough population and location rule of thumb to rate Indiana city and town articles by importance.

  • Metropolitan areas: Top
  • Micropolitan areas: High
  • Populations over 10,000 and suburbs: Mid
  • Everything else: Low

Feel free to adjust individual cases as you see fit. Rfrisbietalk 14:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I think if a city has historical importance, it should rank higher than population would dictate. Corydon is a prime example of this.--Bedford 15:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I'm just suggeting a "starting point," since the project has over 1,300 unassessed articles these days. Corydon would rate higher on an "Indiana history" criterion. Any "article" should be given the highest importance rating based on all criteria that apply. I also moved this topic to the more appropriate WikiProject Indiana talk page. I started it here by mistake. :-) Most of the discussions about article classification and importance probably should talk place there. Rfrisbietalk 16:22, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Can you name ANY community in Indiana that doesn't have significant history? Should Milan, Indiana be listed as important because their high school basketball team inspired one of the most popular movies of the 1980s? Should Huntington, Indiana be considered important because it's where the last canalboat docked for the last time? Should Auburn, Indiana be considered important because they made the Cord Automobile there? Should French Lick, Indiana be considered important because Larry Bird came from there? In general, a community's importance is proportional to the number of lives it affects. A community of 40,000 people will have twice as many relatives living elsewhere as a community of 20,000 people. Vatican City's influence is immense, despite the small population, but what is there in Indiana that is comparable? Bloomington, South Bend, and West Lafayette, because their colleges have a national alumni base, and perhaps even Terre Haute qualifies on that basis. Speedway might qualify, and Broad Ripple, as the place where Dave's Mom lives. Columbus, Indiana, because so many major corporations are headquartered there. But those places are surely important anyway, because of their population.
Important cities and towns is meant to be present tense - it's "Who's Who", not "Who Was Who". William Hendricks was the first congressman from Indiana, served two terms, was unopposed when he ran for governor, resigned to serve two terms as Senator from Indiana. But that was almost two centuries ago, and even most people who live in Hendricks County have no idea who he was. He was my great-great-whatever-grandfather, but as they say, "That and a dime will buy you a cup of coffee". As long as you lay the dime atop a short stack of dollar bills, that is.
Forrest Gump would tell you that "Importance is as importance does". Not as importance did. These days, if you would ask hoosiers to put a pushpin in a map of Indiana, showing where Corydon is, most are going to say "Cory-what?" and a majority of the rest wouldn't come within a 50-mile radius. If you try using subjective criteria for "important cities and towns", you're going to end up with an edit war, sooner or later, with someone claiming New Castle, Indiana is important because of "Raintree County", a book so bad that the author committed suicide two months after writing it, and a classic in the sense that, in the last fifty years, the only people reading it were in classes where it was required reading. ClairSamoht 23:56, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard of that book, and my mother was from New Castle.--MarshallStack 16:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Testing a term paper, shall we? Corydon was the first state capital. It is one of only 2-3 places where a Civil War battle took place above the Ohio River. That is not trivia. Please go look up what trivia is. --Bedford 00:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
That's my point. Corydon WAS the first state capital. But it was temporary housing. There wasn't even one elected governor of the state who served a full term in Corydon.
Claiming that Corydon was the site of a Civil War battle is pretty misleading. Morgan's army was there, but there wasn't another army opposing him there. There wasn't anything in Indiana that was worth fighting for. Under similar circumstances, the folks at Newburgh sensibly didn't fire a shot. There was no Union army trying to protect Corydon, because it was militarily insignificant, and the South knew it, too: General Morgan violated orders from his superiors when he crossed the river. He lost 41 troops. A tragedy to 41 families, sure, but at Gettysburg (which is further north than Corydon), there were 51,112 casualties, and at Antietam, there were 26,134 lost in a single day - the bloodiest day in US military history.
Trivia is "something of small importance" - and if the word isn't illustrated with a picture from Corydon, it's because Corydon is of so little importance that they didn't think of it. I don't mean to insult Corydon. It probably is a fairly quiet and fairly safe place. But that's true of Winamac, or Goshen, or Milan Center, or Nashville, or Loogootee, or Lawrenceville. Perhaps you need to check the definition for "important". Someone who has fame, influence, or power is important. Someone who formerly had fame, influence, or power is "formerly-important". ClairSamoht 01:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Goshen isn't as safe as you may think it is. A lot of people think it's this nice "little" town because of Goshen College and the Amish/Mennonites in the countryside around the city. I was born and raised there, and there's an increasing amount of gangbanger activity there. When my dad was still living, he used to keep the curtains closed so as not to present silhouettes for drive-by shootings. Don't go walking around on the north side of the Norfolk & Southern tracks alone after dark.--MarshallStack 16:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I have been assessing various pages in WP Indiana. I've mostly prescribed to the population guideline, but I did give boosts if I felt the history of the area made up for a lack of population. I tried to avoid rating articles I myself created, but I know I did some.--Bedford 04:38, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History

Why does the history section end at 1860? Is there an Indiana in the Civil War article somewhere, or should I create one?--Bedford 18:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You realize, don't you, that this will only encourage someone else to ask why the history section ends at 1865?
By all means, create the article. Review the Category:Indiana in the Civil War for ideas of subjects you might want to include in the new article. Scott Mingus 19:11, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
There are lots of articles that touch on Indiana in the Civil War, but until you turn the red into blue, no Indiana in the Civil War. Hmmm, red versus blue? Shouldn't that be blue versus gray? Looks like there's a lot of reading to be doing, before the writing is to be done. Have fun; hope you're less confused about color than I appear to be.... ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 06:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Lost county of Virginia"

Anything of interest here for the Indiana history section? Rfrisbietalk 19:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


hi everyone

[edit] Not entirely conservative.

This article makes it seem as if there's no one in the entire state with a liberal viewpoint outside of a few cities. That simply isn't true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.218.3.121 on September 23, 2006 (talk • contribs).

You're right, they do exist, but neighbors keep a close eye on those 17 individuals. ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 21:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
You may have intended that as a joke, but there's more truth to it than you think. To disagree with George W. Bush here is considered tantamount to treason.--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
The number of Hoosiers who voted for the Democratic Party candidate in a presidential election were 969,011 in 2004 and 901,980 in 2000. :) Wikipedia:Neutral point of view Chris24 04:09, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Even if the question was Republican versus Democrat, Chris, your numbers don't address "outside of a few cities", Chris. Kerry only managed to get 50% of the vote in three counties - Marion (Indianapolis) with 50.57%, Lake (Gary) with 61.03%, and Monroe (Bloomington) with 53.43%. Even Allen County, with the second-largest city in the state, only gave Kerry 36.04%.
But the question was conservative versus liberal. Neither party offered a conservative as a presidential candidate in 2000 or in 2004.
The traditional conservative values say that public officials should protect and defend the constitution, support individual freedoms and property rights, fight waste and fraud in government spending, minimize government size, and promote peace through strength. George W. Bush doesn't qualify as a conservative under any of those tests - although Evan Bayh does.
But in Indiana, "conservative" almost automatically equates with "Republican", and many, many Hoosiers go to the polls and almost automatically vote for the candidate with an "R" by their name - no matter if they know anything about him/her or not. Republican presidential candidates rarely campaign here, because they know Indiana's in their bag automatically, and Democrat candidates almost never campaign here, because they figure "what's the use?"--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Because Indiana is an industrial state with a lot of union members, one might expect Indiana to be a Democrat stronghold, but it's not. Before the GOP abandoned its conservative base in favor of fundamentalist theocracy, Indiana elected Republican candidates to every position in the state and federal legislatures, and every elective state office. Has that happened in any other state? ClairSamoht - Help make Wikipedia the most authoritative source of information in the world 05:47, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
  • Indiana is most definitely very, very conservative. I'd say probably the only state that matches it is Utah. Except for the steel workers in Gary/Hammond, the vast majority of the population is non-union, and union membership is depicted here like you're a member of the Communist Party or something. Indiana's polls are the first to close on Election Day, and almost inevitably it's the first state in the Republican column. It's also as close to a model GOP theocracy as anywhere in the country.--MarshallStack 16:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography

i've re-edited the geography section so that it is more balanced and covers northern, central, and southern indiana. obviously, there are sub regions within these areas, such as michiana, which are covered under the general headings. Randella 14:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Indiana. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:17, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Sports section added to updated Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format

The Wikipedia:WikiProject U.S. states format has been updated to include a new Sports section, that covers collegiate sports, amateur sports, and non-team sports (such as hunting and fishing). Please feel free to add this new heading, and supply information about sports in Indiana. Please see South_carolina#Sports_in_South_Carolina as an example. NorCalHistory 16:18, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

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