Talk:Ilaiyaraaja

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Here are some tasks you can do:

But first... the goals: The overarching goal is to turn this into a Featured Article. We should bear in mind that whilst we contribute/add to this article we ensure that it meets/remains within the FA requirements. Another vital endeavour is to get as many contributors as possible to participate. AppleJuggler 02:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Do you have a block of writing that you want to add to the article? Put it here, in The Oven. Let it bake while you think about the most appropriate place in the article to insert it into. Or leave scribbles of ideas in The Oven and let it, well, 'bake'. You may leave potential paragraphs for inclusion into the article or ideas in The Oven so that other contributors can look at it and maybe help you enhance it. Do you have comments? Then leave it in the The Talk Box.

To Do #1: Respond to suggestions provided by reviewers

This article has been peer reviewed, and suggestions have been provided on how to improve this article. These are found here. This article has been submitted as an FA candidate -- this is in order to solicit more feedback. Go here to see FAC review/comments. Please have a look and see if there are any issues that you can address. AppleJuggler 03:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #2a: Expanding the article: more information about the subject is required

We need subject-matter experts. More can be written about the subject's early years (how did he grew up etc.), the era just before Ilaiyaraaja's entry into film direction (how was it, what was happening to the film music industry, was it stagnating?) and perhaps more detail about the period 1976 to mid-1980s (the period of his ascendency as a top film music director). Can something be said about the ubiquity of his music (how regularly are they played or heard in India or abroad, such as in Malaysian radio stations and music shows -- in other words, who are the audience of his music)? These are just a few suggestions. I'm sure editors/writers who give good thought about this subject could come up with other worthwhile information to include. AppleJuggler 03:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #2b: Verification of facts

Again, something for a subject-matter expert to consider. Facts, such as his parents' names and the number of the subject's siblings, need to be verified. If possible, sources should be cited for these. AppleJuggler 03:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #2c: Characteristics of the composer's songs and his direction of playback singing

A third subject-matter issue. The composer's songs has various moods, depending on the film scenes concerned. Some songs deal with motherly love and expressions of gratitude towards mothers (e.g., Amma from the film Mannan (1992)); a number are folk songs: folk songs driven by Indian percussions (the mandolin-and-saxophone-tinged Nila Athu from the film Nayakan and Kattu Kuyilu from Thalapathi (1991)), folk songs with quasi-Afro tribal beats (e.g., Aasaya Katrula from the Johnny (1980)); playful songs for scenes depicting village celebration/festival that fall under the Dappaankuthu musical style; songs in minor keys that express pathos and are classified as 'sad' songs (e.g., Chittuku Chella Chittuku from the film Nallavanukku Nallavan (1984), Aarariro from Thaaikku Oru Thaalattu (1986)); religious/devotional songs; upbeat and exuberant songs designed to, e.g., glorify the hero of a film or capture his rapture (e.g., the ecstatic Oru Nayagan Uthayamagiraan from director Bhagyaraj's film Thavani Kanuvugal (1983)) and Ninaichu Ninaichu from the film Sethu (1999)); psychadelic songs (e.g., Vaanam Keezhe Vandhal Enna from Thoongadhey Thambi Thoongadhey (1983)); dance tracks (e.g., Hey Unnaithane from Kaathal Parisu (1987)); and songs with funk, disco (the Earth, Wind and Fire-esque Ilamai Itho from Sakalakalavallavan (1982)), march (Raja Kaiyya Vecha from Apoorva Sagodharargal (1989)), doo-wop (Pudhu Mappilaiku from Apoorva Sagodharargal), Western folk (Ponmaane Theduthey from Oh Maane Maane (1984)) and 'romantic' pop flavours, embellished by lush orchestration, but which are all nonetheless tied together by a definite Indian quality. Perhaps a section could be developed to describe these with some analysis using selected songs. Separately, perhaps we can talk about the variety of vocal ornamentation (vibrato, trills, melisma, and other nuances) required by Ilaiyaraaja of his playback singers in singing his songs. Elaboration required on his background music work for films. AppleJuggler 03:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #2d: How about a brief analysis of song structure?

For example, most of his songs have a A1-B-A2-B pattern (where A1 is an instrumental prelude, A2 an instrumental interlude and B vocal sections) though this is not always the case. Then there are songs with an B-A2-B-A3-B form (A2 being interlude #1, and A3 interlude #3, a different interlude) or an A1-B-A2-B-A3-B-A1 form (in Poove Senpoove) or an A1-B1-A2-B2-A3a-B1-A3b-B2-B1 form (where 3a and 3b have similar structure but different instrumental arrangements, as in Potta Padiyuthu Thota), whereas the regular B-A2-B form is not that common amongst Ilaiyaraaja's songs. Such an analysis was done by someone for the band Queen which can be found here and here. Can we include something that discusses this? AppleJuggler 13:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Just realised that because entries are meant to be encylopedic, we can't include original research like this in the article. AppleJuggler 03:34, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #3: Check on narrative flow and sentence cohesion

Could a good editor/proofreader deal with this? Thanks AppleJuggler 06:25, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #4: Music samples/Audio clips

Is anyone here good at creating 30-second sound clips of songs/mp3s (with fade-in/fade-out)? Perhaps some such snippets of this musician's songs could be included on this page. AppleJuggler 02:02, 29 September 2006 (UTC) I am working on preparing audio clips at the moment. Just will need help from people who know how to go about uploading these files, probably. AppleJuggler 07:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC).

To Do #5: Can someone with a microphone record an audio file of how Ilaiyaraaja's name is pronounced?

I see sites of famous people with not very straightforward names having these icons that, when clicked, produce a voice that pronounces their names. An example is Satyajit Ray's page (which is the only Indian cinema-related Feature Article on Wikipedia to date). Could someone do that and upload it and fix up that audio icon next to the name of the subject of this Wikipedia article? AppleJuggler 09:44, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

To Do #6 (Urgent): Photograph

I thought I'd issue a call to incorporate a photograph of Ilaiyaraja into the article. AppleJuggler 06:19, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

A reminder -- Wikipedia's copyright requirements have to be heeded when a picture is added to the page. The adding and subsequent removal of a picture due to insufficient copyright information has occurred before and this is a waste of effort. AppleJuggler 01:58, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

As per peer review, more pictures are needed. Can anyone assist with this? Cheers. AppleJuggler 02:38, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

The existing photograph on this article is scheduled for deletion (see main article page for reasons). Could someone please look for a replacement? And, if possible, see if some of the photographs found here [1] could be included elsewhere in this article, mindful of course of the copyright requirements for them. Thank you. AppleJuggler 09:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #7: Musician's discography: Malayalam film albums

The Malayalam film albums listed under the Partial Discography: Notable film albums section seems slightly long, their Wikilink possibilities not looked into, and the entries could do with some highlight-able details where appropriate (compare with the Tamil and Telegu film entries). Could someone please review the Malayalam film albums listed here, discard non-notable entries and tidy it up in general? AppleJuggler 03:42, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Done AppleJuggler 08:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #8: 'Literary Works' section --- sketchy

This section is practically a list. Could someone who knows what these books (written by the subject of this article) are about write a sentence or two about them and maybe couch the narrative in a neat lil' paragraph? Thanks. AppleJuggler 04:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC) Dealt with this. Moved some of the important titles to the Additional Readings section. AppleJuggler 15:05, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #9: The 'Awards and Honours' section: needs citation of sources to back claims made in it

The heading says it all. AppleJuggler 04:12, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

To Do #10: Regularly check the review comments page

There may be more comments added from time to time here. -- Ganeshk (talk) 00:48, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Ilaiyaraaja has been listed as a good article under the good-article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do.
If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a review.

This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Ilaiyaraaja has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.

This article has been rated as A-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments

[edit] The Oven

Please write/experiment here with sentences or paragraphs that you may like to add to the article

[edit] The Talk Box (for comments)

A few things i can think of to make this wiki more closer to a complete reference about the Maestro.

1.) Ilayaraja as a photographer - photography is his hobby.

2.) Ilayaraja's spirituality - the TIS is a musical expression of the spiritual aspect of his life.

3.) A list of interesting facts about Ilayaraja.A few examples:

Singer SPB being one of the singers who has worked with almost all the indian film composers over the past 3 decades, was asked on a telugu channel to name yestyear and contemporary composers who had a perfect knowledge of rhythm and rhythmic patterns. SPB said there is only one such person who composes rhythm for his music all by himself and it is Ilayaraja. All others ask their percussionists to play different patterns and select one of them.Ilayaraja writes down what he wants and gives it off to the percussionists to play.

Another fact...when his first song for his first movie annakili was to be recorded, things were all set, the count began 1,2,3,4....and there was a power shutdown. This was considered a bad sign by many.We all know how popular the songs from that movie went on to be and where it has brought Ilayaraja today. This is a lesson for all those who believe more in such superstitions and less in their own talents.

How the Maestro selected a violinist when ther were 10 of them waiting for 1 vacancy in his orchestra...

He dropped a coin on the floor and asked each one of them to produce that sound, of a coin settleing on the ground.

[edit] Suggestions for improvement from peer reviews

I've cut and paste here some of the comments received from various peer review requests. More may be forthcoming so keep checking via the links provided, as I can't keep cutting and pasting new comments here all the time. But for the time being, here are some constructive comments provided so far. Hope it helps you, dear Wikipedia visitor/editor/improver, to brush up this article. AppleJuggler 04:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

FROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/Peer_review/Ilaiyaraaja

Nice article and well-citated. Some remarks:

~~You could add one more paragraph in the lead. Have you checked WP:LEAD?~~ Yes I've checked WP:LEAD. The single-paragraph lead for this article appears adequate, unless someone else thinks otherwise. Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The information about his family could go in "Early life and education", which could be mentioned "Early life and family". This last information in "Music and Career" look like trivia information which is not good. By the way, try to expand a bit "Early life and family"; it looks stubby to me. Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
~~"Career and music" is long. You could divide it in further sections, e.g. "Early career", "Mature career", "Traits of his art", where you could further expand and analyse.~~ Done AppleJuggler 02:29, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
The fact that you have just one photo is not the best thing for FAC. It is not necessary to have more of them, but it would be nice.
Sections "Awards and nominations","Partial discography" and "Literary works" are three sections in a row, which are long and listy. I think you should turn "Awards and nominations" into prose. Now, about "Partial Discography", I'm afraid that in FAC you'll be asked to make it even more partial! "Literary works" could also be turned into prose, but I'm not definite about the necessity of that. --Yannismarou 13:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC) Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

FROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Peer_review/Ilaiyaraaja

Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Ruhrfisch 03:18, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

(please go to the link above to see automated peer review suggestions)

~~I think that the Career and Music section could do with being divided up into a few subsections. It's well written and referenced, but this is a bit long for one section compared to most articles.~~ Done AppleJuggler 02:31, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

More images too, how about some of the posters of films he has done the soundtracks for? Puddleman 09:24, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

FROM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ilaiyaraaja/Comments

~~The lead needs improvement.~~ (I've improved it, but if you think it can be made even better, please leave a note here on the Discussion page and we'll discuss about it AppleJuggler 04:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC))
~~Concert performances looks stubby. You could expand on that or include it in the rest of the article.~~ Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Miscellanea could be added to other sections of the article.~~ Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
~~Partial discography is too long. They don't seem to like that in FAC.~~ Done AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

These are just some comments. If you desire a review, please use the peer review process. Nat91 03:22, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

~~The article looks profeesional at the introduction but is not in a physical or mental attractive way for the audience to carry on reading.~~ Amended AppleJuggler 15:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
~~The discography looks shabby and needs sharpening up.~~ The partial discography has been significantly reduced in length and other sources provided for interested readers to obtain a more detailed discography. AppleJuggler 02:28, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
~~It was a close call between Start and B, but I decided to be harsh on your request.~~ (My bad... AppleJuggler 04:15, 18 November 2006 (UTC))

These are just some comments. If you desire a review, please use the peer review process. Thamizhan 10:08, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

FROM: Good Article reviewer

If the article was peer-reviewed, some things people would likely say, is that ~~his birth name should be mentioned in the lead section~~ (DoneAppleJuggler 05:53, 19 November 2006 (UTC)), that the ~~external links should be cleaned up~~ (Done AppleJuggler 15:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)), that it would be nice with a CD- or bookcover of his work, and that it should be expanded. Fred-Chess 08:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Resolved Issues

[edit] (DONE) "Ilaiyaraaja" or "Ilayaraja"? -- Consensus Forum

Quite frequently, the composer's name has been changed in the Wikipedia article alternatingly between the above two (or variants of these). I propose that a consensus be reached on an accepted spelling of the composer's name. According to the the supposedly official website (www.raaja.com), the spelling is "Ilaiyaraaja". I propose that this spelling be used for his name consistently, in this Wikipedia article and where it is mentioned elsewhere in Wikipedia. Unless an alternative and correct spelling of the name can be proposed (with evidence, of course, of its correctness), I believe it is safest to stick to the "Ilaiyaraaja" version. Would appreciate opinions and feedback on this. Thanks. AppleJuggler 05:15, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

This arises from the simple fact that many people in (over) enthusiasm try to transliterate the English form into tamil and get a "new" name in the process. I will try to locate some old Casettes and check the name printed there. WE can then decide based on that. I think that (lookig at the cassette cover) will be a good idea instead of asking opinion from every one. Doctor Bruno Talk 02:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Bruno, you have a good point. An academic journal article I found (the one that is referenced in this Ilaiyaraja article) spells his name as "Ilaiyaraaja". This is also how it is spelt on the composer's official website, raaja.com. Would be interesting to see what some of your old cassette tapes would have it as. AppleJuggler 03:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

From the official Ilaiyaraaja page, and various other sources (such as The Hindu newspaper and a peer-reviewed journal article), I have gathered that the correct spelling for Ilaiyaraaja's name is 'Ilaiyaraaja' and have hence redirected the page. Hope everyone's fine with that. AppleJuggler 10:43, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE) Ilaiyaraaja's concert in Italy

We need a source for the statement that he was involved in an Italian music festival. Can someone find it please? If not, I propose we remove that statement. Cheers. AppleJuggler 05:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Managed to find a source for this statement. Hyperlinked it into article. AppleJuggler 11:44, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE) Redirection and merging of page

Page Ilayaraja moved to Ilayaraaja (correct spelling according to official website. See references) -- Ambarish 22:33, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

So spellings in page content need changing? Andy Mabbett 22:37, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- I've just made the changes. Thanks. -- Ambarish 23:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Merged in contents of page Ilaiayaraja. There was a photo on either page. I've retained one of them. Any thoughts on what to do with the other? -- Ambarish 23:06, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE) Biased Statement

I feel that the following words are biased "He has no knowledge of music but tried to get into the industry. He is absolutely overconfident of all and blushes aside all others. He is not a fit music Director"

They should be removed Doctor Bruno 14:06, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. AppleJuggler 05:09, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE): Infobox

Would be good if an infobox could be inserted. AppleJuggler 06:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. But the photo's resolution has gone out of whack. Could someone help rectify, or obtain a different photograph that would behave? AppleJuggler 09:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE): Reference section

I've created a reference section. I cited Greene (2001), who mentioned the following: "Some film music directors, like Ilaiyaraaja, incorporate the melodies and instruments of village folk music...". This helps substantiate the statement made in this Wiki about Ilaiyaraja's usage of Indian folk elements in popular film music. I urge editors to obtain and cite credible references where and when possible. Thanks. AppleJuggler 08:16, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Some dude (or dudette) at Wesleyan University had written a Masters thesis in Ethnomusicology and Composition. Anuradha Mohan's thesis, written in 1994, is entitled "Ilaiyaraja: Composer as Phenomenon in Tamil Film Culture" [2]. Is anybody here in a position to obtain a copy of this thesis? AppleJuggler 08:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. AppleJuggler 23:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] (DONE) Discography section

Too long. Will need to trim down on the number of film music albums listed. AppleJuggler 10:12, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Done AppleJuggler 02:40, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA promoted

I think that the article passes all the necessary criterias for a Good Article. It is well-written, structured, has an image, and well referenced. I understand that the image might be deleted, but what's there to do about it? I understand the difficulty in acquiring a free licensed image of Ilaiyaraaja, and use fair use have become far more restrictive according to the new criterias.

You may however use a fair use image if you write about a previous pediod of, for example if you want to illustrate how he looked in the 1970s.

If the article was peer-reviewed, some things people would likely say, is that his birth name should be mentioned in the lead section, that the external links should be cleaned up, that it would be nice with a CD- or bookcover of his work, and that it should be expanded.

Fred-Chess 08:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

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