Talk:Ice cream

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is a former featured article candidate. Please view its sub-page to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.

Contents 1 Ice cream in China 2 St, Louis World's Fair 3 Squirrel ice cream 4 Sherbet 5 British ice cream - it's not that grim! 6 The Persians Didn't Invent Ice Cream... 7 90%? 8 What about lactase ? 9 Frozen Custard Rare? 10 Ice cream & gelato?? 11 Is there Ice Cream in Africa? 12 Arabia 13 cornish icecream 14 Soft serve 15 China's largest ice cream cake 16 Better Picture!!! 17 Cleanup Tag? 18 Fermentation? 19 Picture 20 Mochi ice cream is NOT Japanese 21 Dangers of ice cream use 22 Favourite ice cream flavours in the US - Baskin-Robbins survey in 2001 23 Article on demographic issues with the ice cream market 24 tonsil surgery 25 Other frozen desserts and Ice cream alternatives 26 Sherbet: inconsistency between reference and link

[edit] Ice cream in China

Any source on the invention of ice cream in China? -- [[User:Dante Alighieri], 7 Nov 2002

A number of websites, include USA Today's Q-and-A, About.com, and ice-cream.org reported a story that ice cream was made during the time of King Tang of the Shang Dynasty, and the ingredients included buffalo milk, flour, and camphor. But these English pages all confused the king's personal name, Tang, with the Tang Dynasty.

I'm not familiar with food history, and I haven't heard of this story or the likes of it in meatspace. --Menchi 10:58 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Considering the essentially total absence of dairy products in traditional Asian cuisine, and the much higher percentage of Asians who are lactose intolerant, the China-as-origin-of-ice-cream theory seems highly suspect to me. --tooki 06:40, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

you might aswell delete that section, its more or less useless, it says alot of rubbish and at the end says "its probably not true..."86.10.40.202 23:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

• Wholesale deletion of the section on China not appropriate - editing is. I have reverted the recent deletion.--A Y Arktos\^talk 00:11, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] St, Louis World's Fair

The revelation of the ice-cream cone at the St. Louis World fair in 1904 is incorrect. It was available in the 1880s in Britain, but I have to research it before changing the details. Mintguy

[edit] Squirrel ice cream

SQUIRREL icecream? Is this somebody's idea of a bad joke? Also, is it true that British 'icecream' has no dairy in it anymore? It's interesting to see how this article has grown since I made it so long ago :) KJ 00:41, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Isn't that just the traditional childhood mispronunciation of fudge swirl ice cream? Personally, I think the worst flavour is liver ripple. - Nunh-huh 00:46, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I removed the squirrel thing. Even if there is such a thing, it is POV to state it is the worst. I'm not sure how true the statement about icecream in Britain is. Icecream here does contain vegetable oil, but I'm not sure if that is completely instead of any dairy product, or in addition to it. [1] says "hydrolysed palm kernel oil... is used by about 70% of ice cream makers in this country", but doesn't say that dairy is not used, although [2] says "In Europe for production of ice cream are used vegetable fats that completely replace milk fat and only for making dairy ice cream is used milk fat". Angela. 22:11, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sherbet

I would like to object to the use of Sherbet in this context, as in the UK and elsewhere it means something really quite different. Could a more neutral term be used instead?

Care to explain what the disparity is? -- tooki 06:40, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] British ice cream - it's not that grim!

l|l For a history and nostalgia trip for one of the two leading rival British ice cream companies Lyons Maid (now sadly defunct, and part of Nestle) (their arch-rival being Walls), see http://www.kzwp.com/lyons/icecream.htm. [Huggy]

[edit] The Persians Didn't Invent Ice Cream...

If one's writing a cute little article for some periodical, then I'd say it's appropriate to call the Persians the inventors of ice cream, because one can be sloppy about the definition and...anyway...it's surprising and fun.

But when writing an encyclopedia article, "they mixed ice with some fruit juice" doesn't count as "ice cream".

A precursor of ice cream, definitely. Deserves to be mentioned in this article, sure. But was it actually ice cream? No. It wasn't even "made" in the sense of sherbet...it wasn't a liquid which was slow-frozen while being stirred, to give it a softer texture than ice. It was more akin to snow cones; ice with fruit juice on it. Kaz 18:05, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There is no solid definition for ice cream. People refer to ice cream as slightly different things in different parts of the world. What is your definition of a "cream"? What is the standard viscosity of a cream? How should it be made? Can it be non-dairy? The pudding mix the ancient Persians made (and still make) is in fact a cream when first made. Have you even tried it? I have. And I judge it to be well inside the ice cream family. It is listed under ice cream in many cook books and restaurant menus. Example: item 131 and 132:

http://www.pars-restaurant.de/Bilder/MENU%20ENGHLISH.pdf#search='faludeh%20recipe'

That said,

Nowhere in the article does it say the Persians invented ice cream. That's a superficial thing to say. But a precursor or a parent of the ice cream? Yes it was. I have already written enough about the sophistication of its preparation to help you and everybody distinguish it from "fruit on ice". The Persians had several ancient chilled treats in fact. Some with milk. Unfortunately, I havent seen any English textbooks on them yet.

There was even a derivative of Faludeh called Kulfi, which was brought to India by the Mughals from Persia before America came into being. It was dairy based. This is mentioned briefly here:

http://news.asianweek.com/news/view_article.html?article_id=6d40974755251326755404c525e16478&this_category_id=171

Instead of outright refuting things you dont know about, please take the time and learn about other cultures. I will post more detailed info as they become available to me this summer when I go and visit the middle east in person.

--Zereshk 00:40, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Not there was...Kulfi. Kulfi is alive and well and is most certainly nowadays exactly bang in the middle of all icecream definitions mentioned in teh article or otherwise - dairy based, smooth etc etc. It is slightly more gooey than western Italian-style icecream , but Jerry's and Bennys is actually similar Refdoc 02:13, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

According to the AsianWeek article that Zereshk mentions above, "Kulfi is believed to have been introduced to India by the Mughal, or Mogul, Empire more than 500 years ago, and its origins trace back to the cold snacks and desserts in the Arab and Mediterranean cultures." That's a verbatim quote. The article that Zereshk cites attributes Kulfi to "Arab and Mediterranean cultures", neither specifically nor exclusively to Persia. Editing article unless someone can find an alternative citation.
JFD 10:59, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 90%?

> Over 90% of the United States enjoys the taste of ice cream.

> Also, a whopping 98% of people have at least tried it at one point of another.

Anyone have a reference for this? It's the very kind of thing that really does need a footnote or comment explaining how such conclusions have been drawn. One would hope there's been some objective study, not a mail-in response to a coupon on some company's ice cream tubs...Kaz 00:10, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What about lactase ?

do they really use it in the process "because glucose and galactose are sweeter than lactose". Chatool 23:52, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Frozen Custard Rare?

Not where I live! There is a Frozen Custard Stand 4 blocks south of me, another one 8 blocks west, and a whole slew of them within 30 miles of me... Including Ted Drew's frozen Custard, which can be bought at almost every gas station and supermarket around me. I suppose it depends on where you live. It's not rare, at least not in the US Midwest. 70.246.221.216

Real frozen custard, or misnamed soft serve? I've only ever had the real stuff in Michigan. Where are these 2826 square miles of which you speak -- it sounds like a magical place? Ewlyahoocom 16:06, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Ted Drewes is located in St. Louis. Frozen custard is definitely outside Michigan. Culver's has a map of all their locations on their website. Ritter's is located in 8 states of which over half are outside the Midwest. I wouldn't call it wide spread, however. Regardless, the question doesn't seem relevant anymore as I don't see mention of custard being rare in the article. -- JLaTondre 18:44, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ice cream & gelato??

Hi, to tell the truth I got quite confused reading the article. I am Italian, and if you get any Italian-English dictionary you can see that the Italian word for "ice cream" is "gelato", so they are meant to be the same thing (in fact in the article there is the tag [[it:Gelato]]), while in en.wikipedia there is another article about gelato. It looks like they are two similar but actually different things. Ok, we might agree that Italy is full of good ice cream shops (or "gelato" shops, if you prefer), while they are quite rare in other countries, but I don't think they are two different things! I was thinking about merging the article "ice cream" and "gelato", moving the data from "gelato" to the Italian section of "ice cream". What do you think about it?

Moreover: the article's stress is mainly about the commercial ice cream, but I think that is not the real ice cream, there should be more attention about the hand-made one. I'll explain with an example: you can make a juice just squeezing fruit, and that is the proper way, but the juice you would buy in a supermarket has lots of other things such as colors, added sugar, preservatives, etc. In an article about juice, I would never say that the ingredients are fruit and colors, etc., but I would talk about the proper one, then adding a section about the common version you would find in any supermarket. The same about this article: the main theme is about the bad version of the ice cream you would find in a supermarket, without stress on the proper one. The choice of the same picture is not that good: would you call that stuff proper ice cream?? I would suggest Image:Strawberry_Ice_Cream_with_Strawberries_01.jpg: this is ice cream. I want to know what you think about it, then I'll try to modify something. - Alessio Damato 07:12, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

---Gelato is ice cream but it is the Italian style of ice cream. It is hard to explain the difference but i think that gelato is smoother and generally doesn't have extra flavors (no rocky road etc) added but instead is a pure flavor.

No. The answer is at Talk:Gelato. — Chameleon 23:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand why you say no. In Italy, gelato may be all ice cream, but to the United States, Italian ice cream has a particular flavor/texture/method of serving which needs to be differentiated from traditional American ice cream. One might say "Italian ice cream", but what one does say is what the Italian vendor tells the American who buys it when asked what it is: gelato. 64.12.116.66 04:57, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is there Ice Cream in Africa?

Obviously the products have been sold around the world. Just curious, but doubtful that there is a historical record because there are very little areas with snow and ice (ei. Mount Kilimanjaro, Tanzania) to contain the cool. So there are Ice Cream in Africa

[edit] Arabia

The section on Arabia had this curious addition (my emphasis):

"Ice cream was the favourite dessert for the Caliphs of Baghdad, Arabs were the first to make it or at least commercially as there were ice cream factories in the 10th century and the first to sugar Ice cream, it was sold in markets of all Arab cities in the past. It was made of a chilled syrup or milk with fruits and some nuts in the face."

Looked like vandalism to me, unless ice cream has a "face" I am unfamiliar with. Removed for now. --Stoo 19:25, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cornish icecream

I dunno, but have you ever tasted the very yellow "cornish dairy icecream", I'm pretty sure ice cream is as much cornish as the cornish pasty,

                                                      paul

[edit] Soft serve

The Soft serve article has been tagged for merger with Ice cream. Please be advised that Soft serve was originally a redirect to ice cream that was first blanked and then nominated for deletion by Rmhermen. His rationale was that the ice cream article did not discuss soft serve. While I did not agree with that, I created the stub as a compromise and I believe that it can probably be expanded. The ice cream article is already pretty long so if the stub can be expanded I think it makes sense not to be merged. -- JLaTondre 20:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that guy... one would think he'd been around long enough to know better than to just blank a redirect but it's true. How does one negotiate with the unreasonable? Ewlyahoocom 13:39, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

• I think that since the Ice cream article is quite substantial, the Soft serve article should not be merged but developed separately.--A Y Arktos 20:36, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Soft serve is related to ice cream but is a separate product made in different ways with different ingredients and distributed in different ways. They can be considered two separate industries. 10 March 2006

[edit] China's largest ice cream cake

Tidbit: China makes 8-ton world-record ice cream cake. Not sure if it belongs in the article. Shawnc 01:55, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Better Picture!!!

This article absolutely needs a better picture. Satchfan 02:27, 2 April 2006

I agree, the ice cream is all melted and gross looking. Yumpizza 13:04, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup Tag?

Is there any reason for the cleanup tag to be on the talk page? Is the article itself in need of any despearate cleanup now? Tamarkot 04:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fermentation?

After watching Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe, the pig farming episode, and they mentioned something about ice cream fermenting....is this true? And if so, can someone explain this and put it in the article? Just as a little oddity, because ive never really heard of a dairy product fermenting into alcohol.

I don't know about ice cream, but for a dairy product fermenting into alcohol, see kumiss.
JFD 18:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Although the cherry ice-cream picture is lovely, I think we should have a more classic picture of ice-cream, and move the cherry one down. Any thoughts? loulou 23:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

i agree.--Peace, Cute 1 4 u 07:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Vanilla ice cream would be best given it's the most common flavor. --IndigoAK 07:57, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mochi ice cream is NOT Japanese

It was invented in California by an American, Frances Hashimoto, and first made by Mikawaya Confectionary in the United States. The claim that "Japanese mochi ice cream (yukimi daifuku) is now popular in California" is incorrect, as mochi ice cream is neither Japanese nor was ir brought to California. Quite the opposite. Falsedef 12:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I've got some new contradicting sources, so I need to figure out which one is correct. Until then, I'm gonna assume mochi ice cream is indeed Japanese in origin rather than American.Falsedef 10:28, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

See mochi ice cream for details on the sources mentioned. JesseW, the juggling janitor 23:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Lotte began selling Yukimi Daifuku in 1981 per its website. That’s probably correct as I ate them when I was a teenager. (Don’t ask me how old I am.) The Californian mochi Ice cream was born much later......in 1993. Read also about Wataboshi, a predecessor of Yukimi Daifuku.Californiacondor 04:49, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dangers of ice cream use

Just for some fun: Mubarak S, Lavernia C, Silva P. "Ice-cream truck-related injuries to children.". J Pediatr Orthop 18 (1): 46-8. PMID 9449101. --WS 15:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Favourite ice cream flavours in the US - Baskin-Robbins survey in 2001

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DQA/is_2001_July_19/ai_76995465 - Might be useful as a source somewhere (do we have a list of ice cream flavors?) The list, in any case, is: Vanilla, Chocolate, Strawberry, Butter Pecan, and Rocky Road, in that order. JesseW, the juggling janitor 22:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article on demographic issues with the ice cream market

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3289/is_4_173/ai_115490578

"U.S. ice cream market grew 24% between 1998 and 2003"

"The buzzword in the early 1990s was "healthful"; manufacturers had to devise products with lower fat and sugar content."

Hope this is helpful. JesseW, the juggling janitor 22:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] tonsil surgery

I think it needs a mention somewhere of how Tonsil surgery in children is traditionaly rewarded by free ice cream.

[edit] Other frozen desserts and Ice cream alternatives

Can I combine “Other frozen desserts” with “Ice cream alternatives”? If no one opposes to my suggestion, I will go ahead to combine them together.--Californiacondor 16:50, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sherbet: inconsistency between reference and link

"Many fruit-flavored ice creams do not contain cream or milk but are fruit sherbets." The word "sherbets" here links to the article about sherbet, which states that in the US, to be a sherbet something MUST contain milk of some sort. Sorbets are thse that contain no milk. This inconsistency should be resolved, either by changing the link, or by correcting the reference to something like "contain little milk or cream". --09:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)