Talk:IAST

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There's a table of some of the html codes for the IAST characters at Talk:National_Library_at_Calcutta_romanization ; if anyone wishes to check them, add anything, and perhaps add columns to indicate what the equivalents are in other transliterations (and scripts), that would be useful. Imc 21:31, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

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It wouldn't hurt to add ळ - l, ड़ - ṛ, and ढ़ - ṛh. And it would be useful to add foreign sounds (in Hindi) and other scripts as well. Anyone who wants to tackle it, omniglot's webmaster uses IAST. Also mention there is no unicode (as far I know of yet) for the ring under ऋ - ṛ, thus confusion with the flapped retroflex. Anyway, I have been such a huge supporter of this system, but I had no idea who developed it or what it was called - only that anybody who's anybody in the scholarly world uses this transliteration transcription! Kudos. Khirad 10:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

I think you're wrong - those characters aren't used in Sanskrit, and I don't think those transliterations are part of IAST. ऋ is definitely ṛ rather than r̥ - look in any Sanskrit textbook. What Omniglot is using is a related but separate system, which unfortunately I don't know the name of - maybe it's correct National Library at Calcutta, though the table in the Wikipedia entry uses r̥ for the vocalic... Looking around, maybe it's ISO 15919... The difference in the use of ṛ is annoying, but there you are. Butsuri 23:41, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That's a very minor nit, but while ळ (retroflex l) is not used for Classical Sanskrit (post-Paṇinian), it is used for Vedic Sanskrit; it even appears in the first verse of ऋग्वेदः Ṛgveda... (of course, the original prononciation of it is debatable). One can also consult Monier-Williams' dictionnary introduction; note there are no mention of ड़ and ढ़ there. AntoineL 10:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[to Khirad] Well, it does hurt, since then you've an ambiguity in the meaning of both ḷ (if you choose it for ळ, as many do) and ṛ; and while it usually obvious for the human reader with the aid of the context, it is a definitive problem for those overly stupid computer algorithms and similar tools, since it breaks the fondamental property of reversibility (lossless). About the ring below r for ISO 15919 ऋ, it is there, as U+0325 (see also http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stone-catend/triunltv.htm); and yes, this use of a combining diacritic is also a problem for those stupid computer algorithms too, albeit to a lesser degree. AntoineL 10:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

r̥ is sometimes used, mainly by Indo-Europeanists (since that's how they write the parent phoneme in the parent language), but it's certainly not IAST. dab (ᛏ) 10:47, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'm sorry, since my main knowledge is Hindi not Sanskrit, I forgot that this system under the title of IAST was for Sanskrit exclusively. In my naïvetée I thought that this was an umbrella term, since I was directed here from pages not dealing in Sanskrit content. You are right, I am thinking of the National Library at Calcutta scheme. Thanks! Khirad^talk 14:11, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Formatting of this page. 2 Using IAST in articles 3 ś 4 Inclusion of the character ळ 5 IAST vs. ISO 15919

[edit] Formatting of this page.

I've got problems here now this page has been reformatted. Using Firefox 1.5 under Linux, I can only see the first column of the table. The rest of the table stretches away about 18 feet to the right, which is not much use as I only have a 17inch monitor. Using Firefox under Windows it displays OK, but I do most of my work here using Linux. Imc 19:31, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, Imc. I had checked it using Firefox and as you said it worked under Windows. Have changed the formating somwhat (not the ideal one though as it has to have spaces between each phonetic set). Do let me know if its okay now (I don't have Linux to test it). --ΜιĿːtalk 06:47, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

That's fine now. Thanks. Imc 09:29, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Using IAST in articles

cut from article:

Usage of correct IAST transliteration of Sanskrit terms in the article can enhance the linguistic value of the article. Along with IPA, it can also help clarify any apbhraṃs (distortion) that may have got introduced in the pure format of the term. Wikipedia has various template supports for IAST. For the correct rendering of IAST glyphs, include the term within {{IAST|-term-}} format. After using IAST in the article, consider including {{IASTText}} template in the article, which would add it to the appropriate category.

this may be useful on Wikiproject Hinduism or someplace, but it doesn't belong on the article. dab (ᛏ) 13:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ś

Is the value of ś definitely /ʃ/ and not /ɕ/? I'm quite certain that the sound represented by the first letter of śiva does not exist in English. --Grammatical error 18:48, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inclusion of the character ळ

In sanskrit and in many other south-indian languages, the character ळ is widely used. It is not found in the IAST in wikipedia. Where is it? Aanand Pranav Sharma 07:56, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

It's there in ISO 15919, but I'm not sure if it's there in IAST. The ISO standard is (largely) a superset of IAST, by the way. Ambarish 08:22, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

it's also in the National Library at Kolkata romanization, but not in IAST afaik. dab (ᛏ) 13:48, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IAST vs. ISO 15919

Is there a reason that IAST is used over ISO 15919 on Wikipedia? The previous discussion item is related to absence of a transliteration for Devanagari ळ in IAST. ISO 15919 this letter is transliterated as l-underdot. Also, in recent years, scholars have begun to represent the short and long forms of vocalic r and l with underring instead of underdot, reserving the latter diacritic, more appropriately, for retroflex and similar letters. Sarayuparin 00:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No there isn't actually. I was attempting to formulate proposals for ISO 15919 but I haven't had time to finish it (see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Indic)). You're more than welcome to assist to get it off the ground! Sukh | ਸੁਖ | Talk 11:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

There is nothing to discourage you from using ISO 15919, especially when transliterating languages other than Sanskrit. When transliterating Sanskrit, the difference of IAST vs. ISO 15919 is really splitting hairs: to people who know Sanskrit, it won't matter whether they see ṛ or r̥ because the meaning is obvious either way, and to people who don't, it own't matter either, because they'll just see an r with some diacritic speck. Using ṛ is more convenient because it doesn't need a combining diacritic in Unicode, and I suggest we stick with {{IAST}} for Sanskrit. In Sanskrit, ळ will only ever come up when discussing specific Vedic Sanskrit citations, otherwise, you'll just use its allophone ढ. In such cases, it may make sense to use ISO 15919. dab (ᛏ) 14:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)