User talk:Iamunknown/Hoy

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This is a discussion concerning the proposed merger of Hoy (boat) and Hoy (ship). Please feel free to research the pages and then participate.

Merge them both into Hoy (ship). Lou Sander 21:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Why should it be disambiguated as "ship rather than "boat"? I understand that the rule of thumb (from the Ships article) is "...a boat can fit on a ship, but a ship can't fit on a boat." The two pictures from Hoy (boat) ([1] and [2]) show hoys of different sizes. In the first picture, it appears that they could fit on a ship, but in the second picture it appears as if they could not. Also, I searched Google, where I found differing information.

• Here it is described as "Small single masted sailing cargo vessel .... full bodied .... dockyard craft."
• On dictionary.com it is as "a heavy barge used in harbors .... [or] for freight," "a vessel of the 17th and 18th centuries, usually slooprigged, used for fishing and coastal trading .... [or] a small sloop-rigged coasting ship."
• Here It is described as a "small boat acting as a tender, especially in rivers or estuaries, or a small coasting vessel under sail."

In other words, I don't know what to think of the choice between disambiguations ("ship" or "boat"). --Iamunknown 22:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I only recommended "ship" because the "ship" article was longer. ;-) Call it anything you want, including "watercraft," "sailing vessel," "prover of Archimedes' Principle," or ???? Lou Sander 23:00, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

:P Okay. I hope to appropriately disambiguate it, but I don't know enough info to do it. At WikiProject Ships, however, Martocticvs (talk • contribs) brings up a good point. It makes sense, although I don't know enough to know if it is valid or not. Martocticvs says

"I think boat would be the preferred term in this case. Because the subject is from the Age of Sail, the term 'ship' should be used for vessels that are ship-rigged - obviously a hoy was not, so boat is a much better term."

Makes sense to me. --Iamunknown 23:35, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Makes sense to me, too. It's nice to have the pictures, so we can see what we're talking about. And I just noticed (Sheesh!) that, in spite of my comment above, the Hoy (boat) article is really the longer one. Also, the ship/boat question is pretty much handled in the first sentence of the (boat) article. At the risk of confusing things, I point out that you could name the article "Hoy (sailing craft)," which would remove the ambiguity and would cover the change in the craft's nature that is pointed out in the article. Lou Sander 02:39, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

True. We could use "(boat)" without ambiguity if we found verifiable sources documenting its verity. I wonder, if we were to find those sources, however, if we might also find sources advocating the use of the term "(ship)". If we were to actually find scholarly definitions, I'm sure there would be debate. At any rate, I'm not sure where I would even start to attempt to learn the scholarly or accepted (and documented) distinction between the two. But Hoy (sailing craft) would be a viable alternative. --Iamunknown 03:37, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

If I were you, I'd wait a day or two to see what else might pop up here, then I'd BE BOLD in making whatever change seems best to you. (The more I think about (sailing craft), the more I think I like it.) Lou Sander 03:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Done it. Hope it's fairly OK.(RJP 18:10, 28 November 2006 (UTC))