Talk:I Not Stupid

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The following users are active in maintaining and improving this article. If you have questions regarding verification and sources, they may be able to help: Hildanknight (talk • contribs)

A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.

To-do list for I Not Stupid:

edit · history · watch · refresh

Content Format references Add production section Theme song, Budget Background of the production company Writing Film settings (govt. school, hdb, hawker center, etc) (Do we know the precise locations where it was filmed?) Describe the languages used in film, note that title is in Singlish Rewrite plot section Add some fairuse screenshot pictures Expand reception section mentioned in GCT's NDP rally 2002 [1] Social commentary Changes in Primary school screening process Add (selected) criticisms received in reviews, (lengthy, too local, tried to cover too many themes, etc.) Add template for Jack Neo's films Additional references (not yet used) http://web.archive.org/web/20050512202637/http://194.21.179.166/cecudine/fe_2002/eng/singapore2002.htm http://www.filmsasia.net/gpage2.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFyV6Op4b98 http://www.gov.sg/nd/ND02.htm http://search.ft.com/searchArticle?id=020412001907 Jack Neo interview by SMA Copyedit Submit for peer review

Contents 1 Preparing the article for GA status 2 Jack Neo's quote 3 Cast 4 Production section 5 Political satire 6 Screenshots 7 What happened to the image in the infobox?

[edit] Preparing the article for GA status

According to production notes from Raintree Pictures,[2] the main characters of the movie were played by the following actors and actresses:

I understand the need for verifiability, but is that sentence really necessary? It makes it sound like there could be some doubt as to who played the actors. Good job on the article, nonetheless. -ryand 04:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Furthermore, it might be worth creating articles for all the red links in the article (like Cheryl Chan, Selena Tan, et cetera). They have to be created at some point, anyway. On another note, I've edited the references section to use the smaller font size, and cleaned up a few capitalization/spelling errors. -ryand 04:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestion, RyanD. I intend to write an article on Money No Enough, Singapore's all-time highest-grossing film. When I am bored, I'll create stubs on the actors/actresses who currently do not have an article.

Regarding the allegedly unneccesary sentence, without it, where in the table would I place the citation? When I created the table, I asked on the Village Pump "Where in the table should I place the citation?" They suggested I add the allegedly unneccesary sentence, and place the citation there. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 15:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think citations for cast lists are necessary at all; a quick look at the featured article films indicate that none of them have a citation to verify their casts. -ryand 18:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I have fixed it. The information of the source is already in the reference entry, so we can safely remove it from the main text. --Vsion 19:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Neo's quote

Found one article [2] with Neo's quote regarding the problem of Sg's education system. Neo probably has had many interviews regarding the INS film. What he said can be very useful material regarding the background of the movie and its message. Hopefully we can find more of these references. --Vsion 21:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cast

The article needs to give some background of the casts. Most readers would have no idea who Xiangyun is, describing her (and few others) as veterans (or something similar) is appropriate given their status in the local entertainment scene. It came from a source, i don't have it now, but it shouldn't be difficult to find. Again some background is necessary, to give that section a better structure and more depth, as compared to a list of unfamiliar names for most readers. Same for the Comedy Night comedians, also Hossan Leong is well-known in the theatrical scene. Their background and guest-starring roles should be noted. --Vsion 15:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean like the cast section in Casablanca? -ryand 16:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

How on earth did you find out that I was looking at that? This is kinda spooky. :D --Vsion 16:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh. -ryand 12:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes; besides the main cast, the table in the Cast section should also mention the supporting cast. I will add more information to the table, though I will have to work within the constraints of my reference. I removed the paragraph Vsion added, because it was slightly POV. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Production section

A Production section is essential to achieve "broad coverage", a GA criteria.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to find referenced information on Singaporean movies.

I need suggestions for information we should include in the Production section. My list so far: music, writing, shooting, crew and budget.

Once we have finalised the list, it's time to research and find referenced information to add to the section!

--J.L.W.S. The Special One 08:59, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that references do not need to be strictly in English. Chinese references are perfectly acceptable if there are no english alternatives. --Vsion 18:56, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I know that Chinese references are acceptable, but it is harder to find Chinese references through Google. I'm considering including Chinese references in Homerun (film), due to the lack of available English references about Megan Zheng's Golden Horse victory (the biggest notability claim). --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The production section could include information and quotes gleaned from such sources as the production notes from the film company, blogs or web-postings by the director and/or actors and newspaper or magazine articles written before the film's release. — WiseKwai 17:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

I have finally decided what information should go into the Production section, and how it should be organised:

• 1st paragraph: We already have SMA's interview of Jack Neo. If we can find other interviews or quotes from Jack Neo or the directors/actors, or further information on the writing of the script, great!
• 2nd paragraph: This article should be an adequate reference for the budget. We know the sponsors - if we can't find any better references, we'll use the FilmsAsia review. The production notes should provide all the information we need on the production crew. For the song, we only need to mention its title and who composed/sung it.
• 3rd paragraph: The hardest to reference. Information on filming dates and shooting locations.

I think we should be able to find references and finish writing by Sunday, when I intend to submit the GA nomination. Any comments?

--J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Political satire

The entire section on political satire appears to be original research. If you could find some sources...? -ryand 15:48, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I know the section is unreferenced, but I doubt we can find any reliable references for it.

Anyone who watched I Not Stupid will know that political satire is an integral element of the film. It seemed awkward to simply state that the film contained political satire without further elaboration, so I added the examples.

The answers to the following two questions will decide what we should do with the "Political satire" section.

1. Will the inclusion of the unreferenced "Political satire" section cause I Not Stupid to fail the "factually accurate and verifiable" section of the GA criteria?
2. Will the exclusion of said section cause said article to fail the "broad coverage" section of the GA criteria?

If the answer to 1 is "no", leave the section alone. If the answer to question 1 is "yes" and the answer to question 2 is "no", remove the section. If the answer to both questions is "yes", forget about GA status.

--J.L.W.S. The Special One 08:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, the answer to 1 is most likely "yes". See WP:CN and WP:OR. The issue will definitely be mentioned during the GA assessment anyway. As for the answer to 2... "maybe". Best option would still be to try and find reliable sources. I'm not too sure about this though, you could try asking WP:FILM? -ryand 13:49, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Some reviews do mention about the satires [3], [4]; we could use them. I also found a chinese reference from xinhuanet [5], it has many many material we can use. Another thing, the film is more than just political satire; some stuff (especially the em3 issue) are also "social commentary", to highligh social problems and, in this way, advocate changes in government policies and social attitude.--Vsion 15:35, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Responding to some queries about this article over on Wikiproject Films, I would encourage that editors to continue to look for ways to reference the political satire section without having to gut the section or do away with it entirely. It's been awhile since I've seen the film, but I'm wondering if there is a way to incorporate the information into the plot section, or is the satire so veiled that there's no way to factor it in to the plot? Or, perhaps the political satire could be referred to in the reception section? What did the public think? Were there letters to the editor of magazines or newspapers? (Or is that sort of thing allowed?) Perhaps a visit to a public or university library or newspaper archive will reveal more? — WiseKwai 15:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I was able to locate a reference that covers approximately half the information in the political satire section. Another paragraph is a quote directly from the film, and is self explanatory, I think. It's quite a good quote, very revealing. The film itself is a reference for that, same as the plot section (cast lists, too, can be drawn from the films themselves - from the closing credits). The comment about white shirts and symbolism of the PAP's purity is still unreferenced, but perhaps another source, not related to the film could be used, just as proof that the PAP wears white as a symbolism of purity? Perhaps the same kind of referencing could be done for the comment about expatriate workers: find a source that comments on foreigners being hired because of the perception that Singaporean workers are inferior? Or the two problematic paragraphs could be jettisoned, with the major points about political satire left intact. What does anyone think? — WiseKwai 17:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Using a source unrelated to the film as citation for the section on political satire would count as synthesis of published material serving to advance a position, I think. I agree that the two unreferenced paragraphs can be removed without losing most of the meaning - and they should be removed if we can't find proper sources for them before we nominate the article for GA status. -ryand 17:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Ah, see, that's why I brought it up here. Thanks, Ryan, for the pointer on policy. It's very helpful. — WiseKwai 17:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The Plot sections of most FAs on movies are unreferenced, given the argument that the movie is the assumed reference point. Could this argument apply to the Political satire section too, letting us leave it unreferenced? If the policy on synthesis of published material serving to advance a position applies, referencing the section would be impossible, and we should just whack it instead.

A closer analysis of each paragraph in the section:

• The first paragraph has only one sentence: "I Not Stupid is noted for its political satire." Does that need a reference? Doubt it.
• The reviews we have should mention the criticism of the Singaporean education system mentioned in the second paragraph.
• The third paragraph - on Terry's mother personifying the PAP - is already referenced (the sentence on the white shirt may need to go).
• This review could reference the quote about fish in Singapore in the fourth paragraph. Feel free to remove the kidnapper's quote - I doubt it can be referenced.
• The last paragraph can be safely deleted. I don't think any of the reviews mention these issues (they are less significant than the education system and PAP).

Why did I think this would be so difficult? We're nearly there.

--J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Screenshots

The Plot section could do with a screenshot.

Are these screenshots usable under fair use?

Which screenshot should we use? One that shows an incident described in the Plot section would be ideal.

--J.L.W.S. The Special One 02:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't see a problem. Film screenshots count as fair use under WP:FAIR. -ryand 09:35, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Good. Which screenshot should go into the article? Preferably a screenshot that corresponds to an incident mentioned in the Plot section. (For example, if there was a screenshot showing Mr Khoo firing the employee, it could be aligned near the paragraph about that - but there isn't such a screenshot.) --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not very familiar with the film, so I can't help you there. But there are more (and larger) screenshots here if you want to use them. -ryand 16:31, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the images in the link you provided are not screenshots from the film itself. Perhaps they are screenshots of outtakes. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 11:05, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

My bad; like I said, I'm not familiar with the film. I'm sure there are more screenshots out on the Internet, though - if not, I could try to obtain the DVD and capture some screenshots if you want (but don't expect anything too soon, I'll be overseas over the next week or so). -ryand 12:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I suggest you get the DVD and take several screenshots before you go overseas. Ensure that the screenshots correspond to events mentioned in the Plot section, such as the kidnap. After watching the movie once, you will definitely want to watch it again and again, so the money you spend on the DVD won't get wasted!

As a side note, you may wish to list I Not Stupid as a SGAE "sample article" on a movie. Do you have MSN Messenger or Google Talk? If so, I would like to add you. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 13:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Like I told Terenceong, I like to think that I still have a life outside of Wikipedia. As such, I'm going to have to decline your request; you may contact me by email if you like, or leave a message on my talk page. As for the screenshots... give me a couple of days. I'll try to get some. -ryand 19:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I have not been able to obtain the DVD as of yet, but I have found several screenshots online: [6] [7]. Take a look? -ryand 17:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

From the dimensions and the uniform appearance of the images on the two websites (also here), those look like production stills, which would have been released to the media as part of a press packet to promote the film. The screenshot license would not be accurate. They would need to be uploaded under the {{promophoto}} license, which has a lot of caveats and requirements and is getting a lot of attention from image deletion specialists. Perhaps {{fairusein}} could be used? An actual screenshot from a DVD is easier to verify for copyright sourcing. Or, if a press pack from Raintree could be obtained, then all the sourcing (photographer's name, terms of usage) would be easy to submit. — WiseKwai 17:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Damn things, screenshots and licensing. You see, I've just realized that even if I managed to grab the DVD, I'm currently (owing to various circumstances) using a machine that can't play DVDs. I'd need to find someone else's computer to borrow in order to take any... I can still do it, but I'm not sure I can get it done before the rest of the article gets ready for GA.

Normally, screenshots can be obtained from overzealous fansites; but I can't seem to find any for the I Not Stupid films... -ryand 06:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

It's going to be okay, guys. I think my local video store has a copy of the DVD for rent. I'll have a look in the next day or so. I should see the movie again, anyway. I can't guarantee how soon I'll get around to it. What's the time-frame for applying for GA status, anyway? A deadline might make me move quicker. — WiseKwai 07:10, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Chill out, Ryan and Wisekwai. You've forgotten that the writer of this article (me) has watched I Not Stupid a million times, and can tell what's a screenshot and what's not. I checked the three links you provided, and most of the screenshots are real screenshots from the movie itself (a few are outtakes/promotional material). I'll upload one or two suitable screenshots and include them in the article. Leave all the rest to me. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good. Sadly, I checked my rental place and they don't have the movie. The only Singapore title available is Be with Me, but that's another story. I'll have to keep checking around. Even if I don't need to do any work on the article, I'd still like to see I Not Stupid again. — WiseKwai 14:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What happened to the image in the infobox?

The infobox is supposed to have an image of the VCD/DVD cover. However, Image:I Not Stupid.jpg is a red link. Was the image deleted? If so, why? What can we do? --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:26, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I re-uploaded it. The deletion log is here, which says it was deleted for lack of licensing information, which could mean any number of things: lack of source information, unknown copyright status or lack of a licensing tag. The image now has all that (not saying that it didn't before; I'm not sure why it was deleted), plus a fair-use rationale. It should not be a problem. — WiseKwai 15:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for resolving this issue. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 14:40, 14 December 2006 (UTC)