Talk:Hydronium

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I am confused between the difference with the water equilibrium and an equilibrium between hydrogen, hydronium, and hydoxide.

[edit] Some error ?

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Two other well-known structures are the Zundel and Eigen cations. Eigen placed the hydronium ion at the centre of an H₉O₄⁺ complex in which the hydronium is strongly hydrogen-bonded to 3 neighbouring water molecules (3). Eigen proposed an H₅O₂⁺ complex, in which the proton is shared equally by two water molecules (4).

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(3) Zundel, G. & Metzger, H. (1968) Energiebänder der tunnelnden Übershuß-Protenon in flüssigen Säuren. Eine IR-spektroskopische Untersuchung der Natur der Gruppierungen H₅O₂⁺ Z. Phys. Chem. 58 225-245.

(4) Wicke, E.; Eigen, M. & Ackermann, Th. (1954) Über den Zustand des Protons (Hydroniumions) in wäßriger Lösung. Z. Phys. Chem. 1 340-364.

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Actually, I'm unable to verify the articles (not so easy), but there is probably something wrong:

-) The (3) is a Zundel's, not Eigen's, article.

-) From the article it seems that Eigen proposed both models, and it's not clear which is the Zundel and which the Eigen cations formula.

-) I'm quite sure that Zundel (not Eigen) proposed the H₅O₂⁺ structure. See, for example, J. Chem. Phys., Vol. 116, No. 2, 8 January 2002 (or simply the title of Zundel's article (3)). (But I could be wrong)

It doesn't matter who proposed what, but rather what the solvation structure is called. Pigwiggle

[edit] oxonium and hydronium ions are different

an oxonium ion is R₃O⁺ and can be hydronium but also a protonated ketone or aldehyde, I propose to split of oxonium to the more general meaning V8rik 22:39, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Isn't the IUPAC name actually HYDROXONIUM? 218.103.142.233 12:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

maybe, but no one uses it.Pigwiggle 16:17, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

that doesnt matter. what matters is what it is. Javsav 11:00, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Fine, but don't get all excited about moving the page or anything. Folks will be coming here to read about the hydronium cation. I'm exceedingly familiar with the literature and absolutely everyone uses hydronium. I don't recall ever reading oxonium or hydroxonium. I'd bet the farm hydronium is used exclusively in the page references. Pigwiggle 14:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pure Hydronium?

Can you make pure hydronium?

=) I suppose you could, if you took a measured quantity of a strong mineral acid (HCl or some such) and added an equal amount of moles of pure water to it. If you then filter out the anions (Cl) by putting it through a membrane, you would be left with hydronium.

doubt it; you would have a huge charge deficit not to mention two highly reducing/oxidizing solutions Pigwiggle 16:20, 30 March 2006 (UTC)