Talk:Humphrey Bogart

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Humphrey Bogart article.
Please sign and date your posts using four tildes (~~~~). New discussion topics go at the bottom of the page; click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Frequently asked questions. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Talk page guidelines Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Don't bite the newcomers!

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ] See comments
	This article is supported by the Arts and Entertainment work group.

This article is a former featured article. Please see its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

Humphrey Bogart appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on August 23, 2004.

This article is a former featured article removal candidate. Please see the archive to see why its featured status was upheld.

Contents 1 Casblanca 2 Hagiography 3 Original? 4 Organization 5 Date of birth 6 Length 7 His Early Life 8 Request for references 9 Non-smoking picture 10 Don't Bogart that joint, my friend... 11 Descent of Bogart 12 Good article, but I don't think it should be a featured article 13 Bogart's Parties 14 Quotes? 15 Greatest Male Star of all Time?

[edit] Casblanca

Moved section on Casablanca to that page.

[edit] Hagiography

Lots of well-written, informative material here, but veers towards hagiography. It needs revising with the neutral point of view in mind, specifically the section about artistic figures. --Robert Merkel

[edit] Original?

Is all of this work original? It sounds maybe copyrighted? If not, I apologize. -- Zoe

I'd like to know, too. Parts of it sound overly laudatory, and I've been dipping in occasionally to try to tone it down.

One thing to check is a Google exact string search--e.g. just search for "[one striking sentence from the article]". I did that earlier with no results, but may have picked the wrong sentences. Also, there was that fracas over the poet, where someone took an article from Wikipedia, reposted it, and accuse us of a violation. But, anyway, it's a place to start. --KQ 14:30 Aug 6, 2002 (PDT)

The author has posted to my talk page asserting that it's original. --KQ 05:16 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)

[edit] Organization

Could somebody please add some kind of organization to this sprawling article? Thanks.

Well, when someone interested in seeing some organization comes along, it will be organized. Hey, you're interested in seeing some organization... ;-) --Stephen Gilbert 15:19 Oct 1, 2002 (UTC)

[edit] Date of birth

I looked into this article while writing about Bogart for the Polish Wikipedia. Boy, the birth date is wrong ! By making a cursory web research I have found out that the correct birth date is December 25 and the January 23 date is an example of urban legend.
Kpjas Wed, 18 Dec 2002 22:06:20 +0100

[edit] Length

Some of the anecdotes in the story are very interesting and do indeed serve to keep the reader captivated, but I think it makes the article a little too lengthy. I'm very ambivalent about this. What's the perfect length and comprehensiveness of an article? Kent Wang 12:18, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)

[edit] His Early Life

A minor nit here, but when discussing his mother the article mentions: "In her prime, she made over $50,000 a year as an illustrator, then a vast sum for a woman to earn." Is that an inflation-adjusted figure? If not, and Maud Humphrey really did pull down $50k at the beginning of the 20th century, that is a vast sum of money period.

• • The article says that his mother was politically a "Tory". Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no American Tory Party. If his mother was born in England, making her able to be a Tory, then it should be stated that she was British.

• • Also..regarding his lisp in this section, lips do not have a role in creating lisps...therefore a splinter in his lip would have no effect on his speech. That needs to be corroborated or removed. Saucybetty 22:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

== Captions ==

I couldn't figure out why to include a second Casablanca picture in the article and struggled with writing a good caption for it. Feel free to put it back if you can make it fit without being redundant and with a good caption. Caption guidance is at Wikipedia:Captions. -- ke4roh 01:47, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)

The caption is more about the film than the actor; should perhaps be on the film's page, but no reason for it here. MisfitToys 00:30, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 16:35, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Non-smoking picture

How about using a picture that doesn't promote this deadly habit.

On the contrary, I think people should see Bogart smoking and know that this resulted in his death aged 57. Also, pictures of Bogart without a cigarette are quite rare!

Agreed, he was an inveterate smoker, and purposely removing a picture of him smoking smacks of revisionism.Saucybetty 22:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don't Bogart that joint, my friend...

...is it worth mentioning that his on-screen habit of letting cigarettes burn at length led to The Fraternity of Man song "Don't Bogart Me" and the phrase "Don't Bogart that joint," meaning "pass the joint around because it's just being wasted." ?

[edit] Descent of Bogart

As far as I can find, Bogart wasn't of of English descent but of Dutch descent. Perhaps that should be taken out of the page. His last name was Dutch also, derived from the Dutch last name Bogaert.

More information can be found on these pages. http://cybrary.uwinnipeg.ca/people/dobson/genealogy/famous/Bogart.html http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~nnnotables/zhubo.html

[edit] Good article, but I don't think it should be a featured article

I looked at this the other day and decided to come back to mention the inadequacies I noticed at the time. I am very surprised to find this is a featured article. It is good, but it is missing two rather important things:

• The years between Casablanca and The African Queen - about half of his prime - are largely omitted except in so far as they are seen through the prism of his relationship with Bacall.
• There is no filmography.

Could someone add these please? Scranchuse 13:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, there is a separate filmography, but I don't see why it is separate when filmographies are included in the main article for most actors. Scranchuse 13:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it's good but not great. It would certainly not pass as a featured article now, and I think it should be listed on Wikipedia:Featured article review. The main problems I see are 1. a lack of a lead section. The "overview" section is not suitable as a lead as it goes into too much detail of his iconic status rather than provide a summary of the article. 2. A huge chunk of his career is not discussed, except as "seen through the prism of his relationshipm with Bacall". Absolutely agree. It's also POV, (IMO) to use film titles as headers or subheaders. It's not for us to spotlight which films are worthy of discussion and I think it's generally not a good thing. 3. The structure is a bit haphazard. I'd prefer a simple, straightforward chronology and there are just too many headers and sections anyway. 4. Some of the writing verges on the colloquial rather than the encyclopedic and needs to be more of a news report rather than the conversational, anecdotal style of some areas. Hopefully listing it will allow it to be improved. I don't know much about Bogart, and I have no reference material to fall back on here, so I hope that someone else can help. Rossrs 14:16, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bogart's Parties

There are no sources for any of these stories, so I tagged it "Not Verified" --subliminalis 07:17, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quotes?

Every single quote in this article needs citations or sources, otherwise they need to be removed. -- 128.118.74.4 22:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greatest Male Star of all Time?

Surely, Bogart was a great star, but doesn't the above stated honorific seems excessive? C'mon, how would Chaplin, Fairbanks, Sr. Clark Gable or Ronald Colman feel? Tom Cod 06:35, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, but it is attributed and sourced.:) I just saw Bogie last night in African Queen so i would tend to agree.--Mantanmoreland 01:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)