Talk:Homyel

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Contents 1 City Name 1.1 Proposed name change: Gomel 1.2 Homyel vs Homel vs Gomel 2 Belarusian cities naming conventions

[edit] City Name

Why don't you use the actual Belarusian name of the city for the name of this article: Homyel? This name is used in all actual atlases and even on maps of the National Geographic Society, Washington, D.C. "Gomel" ist the Russian name of the city used during the Soviet era. Best wishes, Hanno Meissner, Wolfsburg, Germany

Well, the "actual Belarusian name" is Гомель, which is Homel (or Homel') according to most systems of Belarusian to English transcription systems, not "Homyel". -- Picapica 16:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, you're right that Homyel is totally wrong - but according to most systems of Belarusian to Latin script transcription systems, it is Homiel, not Homel (which corresponds to Гомэль, not Гомель). --Monkbel 18:08, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

However, most Belarusian sources give Гомель, not Гомэль. Some examples of Belarusian-language texts including place names:

• Ужо да пачатку сакавіка фронт знаходзіўся на лініі Орша - Магілёў - Гомель. [[1]]

• Прадстаўлены наступныя гарады: Бабруйск, Баранавічы, Барысаў, Брэст, Віцебск, Глуск, Гомель, Гродна, Кобрын, Крычаў, Ліда, Лунінец, Магілёў, Маладзечна, Мінск, Навагрудак, Нясвіж, Орша, Пінск, Полацк, Рагачоў, Рэчыца, Свянцяны, Слонім, Слуцк. [[2]]

• Але, напрыклад, Устава на валокі 1557 г. непасрэдна называе іх «валасцямі Рускімі» і дае пералік: Рэчыца, Мазыр, Бабруйск, Чачэрск, Прапойск, Мсціслаў, Орша, Любеч (зараз на Украіне), Гомель, Глуск, Магілёў, Свіслач, Барысаў, Любашаны, а таксама Полацк. [[3]]

Note, too, "Орша", not "Ворша". I realize that orthographies and practices differ even within Belarus, but it is the Wikipedia convention to start from the most commonly used forms. This applies to the English-language forms of foreign names too: thus, moving Maladzechna (Google 13,900) to Maładečna (54) was very wrong in my view, and what is more your editing out of the fact that Maladzechna is the commonest spelling is counter-encyclopaedic. Wikipedia is not about what any of us would like to be the truth, and should not be made a platform for a wished-for revival of Łacinka. -- Picapica 13:27, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed name change: Gomel

Much more common word, and has much more hits in all searches, moreover the city server uses it, as do most of the English language press. eg. BBC. WP:Naming conventions says clearely on which version to use the version most common in English eg. Kyiv vs Kiev. --Kuban Cossack 12:53, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Britannica[4] uses "Homyel", thus it would be correct to say that both spellings "Homyel" and "Gomel" are commonly used in English.

Kuban Kazak, if you consider such controversial moves (such as switching from Belarussian-based spelling to Russian-based spelling), then please discuss the issue first. KPbIC 01:24, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

These are not controversial, but common sense, if you look at wiki right now there seems to be no correct standard on what is a Belarusian translit. There is Homiel, Homyel, Homel... and on the other side there is plain Gomel. Presentely the Belarusian translit on wiki is a mess. Some want to use one system others that archaic Lacinka. At least we have the security that the Russian names (and Russian like it or not is the officialy preffered language of Belarus) are not only more common and widespread, but our translit system is well established and in mass use. --Kuban Cossack 23:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Homyel vs Homel vs Gomel

Simple googling gives 50K hits for Homyel ([5]), 505K hits for Homel [6] (with many being last names, not the city) and 1750K hots for Gomel [7].

Columbia uses Gomel [8], Brittanica uses Homel [9], Brittanica Concise uses Homyel [10].

It looks like claims that Homyel is the most common English spelling are dubious. I would prefer either Homel or Gomel, with Gomel seems to be at least twice as common in English as Homel. Lets see the other arguments for a name.

The good thing about been an admin is that I could move an article wherever the community wants it to be moved without going into the formal discussion but lets see what the community thinks abakharev 23:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

• I decided to restore the Status Quo for the time of the naming discussion, so I have returned the name back to Homyel abakharev 00:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Based on the provided search results I would rather conclude that the city has no established English name, and for this reason we should probably transliterate it from the national language of the territory, which I would say is Belarussian. (But I know that two languages are official in Belarus... So, probably, it would be valuable to hear the opinions of Belarussians). KPbIC 01:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Official transliteration in Belarus will be Homiel. Homyel is simply unacceptable since it is wrong (deprecated) transliteration; and Gomel is transliteration from Russian. --Monk 05:15, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[11] 12.5K google references, the worse so far abakharev 05:32, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belarusian cities naming conventions

Please let us discuss this in one place, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (city names)#Belarus and put final decisions into Wikipedia:Naming conventions (city names)#Belarus `'mikka (t) 03:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC)