Talk:Holy See
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[edit] removed abuse
I have deleted irrelevant and inflamatory remarks by an unidentified user from this page. Publius 22:09, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
[edit] kidnapping part
This showed up in mid-March:
- The Holy See stands as a beacon of moral authority for the Catholic world as well as for people of all religions across the globe. To this day, however, the Holy See has not condemned the kidnapping of the six year old Jewish child Edgardo Mortara in 1858 by Pope Pius IX on the grounds that a housekeeper had secretly baptized him.
Someone else found the kidnapping part troublesome, and I couldn't agree with the "beacon of moral authority" part. How many Buddhists (or Unitarian Universalists, for that matter) refer to the Holy See for morality? That the Pope dictates morality for Catholics is already stated in not so many words near the top of the article. That said, it may be worth a sentence explaining the pervasiveness of the influence of the Holy See. To Christians whose final arbitor of morality is other people rather than the spirit within, I refer you to Romans 10. -- Ke4roh 16:46, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[edit] The Breaking of The Law
Though it is true that sometimes it is lawful to tolerate a lesser moral evil in order to avoid a greater evil or in order to promote a greater good," it is never lawful, even for the gravest reasons, to do evil that good may come of it (18)—in other words, to intend directly something which of its very nature contradicts the moral order, and which must therefore be judged unworthy of man, even though the intention is to protect or promote the welfare of an individual, of a family or of society in general. (18) see Rom 3,8 This is the legal principle cited as the basis for the enciclical Humanae Vitae and is the foundation for the teaching concerning human fertility .
- You may also want to re read your Thomas Aquinas. I think the moral discussion you are searching to ID and use is the principle of double effect. And you are right, it is NEVER moral to use evil means to good ends (as the case you site reminds us, correctly):).DaveTroy 20:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] PLO
- It also has relations of a special nature with Russia (Mission with an Ambassador) and the Palestine Liberation Organization (Office with a Director).
Is it the PLO or the Palestine Authority?
[edit] Montenegro
I'm interested in monitoring the development of the treatment of the dissolved union of Serbia and Montenegro with regard to the foreign relations of the Vatican and the church hierarchy. See also Talk:Roman Catholicism in Montenegro. --Joy [shallot] 19:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Blatently Offensive
Why are you rewrite History? Holy See does not primarily refer to Rome. How self centred can you get?? Please!!! I suggest you write a new Entry - "Holy See of Rome" . It is extremely offensive and biased to say the Holy See is exclusively or primarily "Rome" (old Rome) since it disregards all Historic truth. What happened to the 7 Holy Sees of the Holy Church?
Re-writing history is like burning the books by NAZI Germany. A Holy See was and is in reference to one of the Holy Patriarchates of the Holy Roman Empire of Byzantium in the Early Church. Furthermore the transfer of Rome to the East, namely modern day Istanbul meant that the See of Rome was removed from Old Rome and now was to be found in or granted to New Rome - Nova Roma which till this day is still the title given to the See of Constantinople. Hint: take off your blinkers and you will notice that the centre of the Universe isn't Rome.--203.59.65.175 08:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Opening
I reverted the opening to a previous version because the most recent one had a couple of problems.
- There is more than one local ordinary of the Diocese of Rome. There are currently at least three: Benedict XVI (diocesan bishop), Cardinal Ruini (vicar general), and Archbishop Luigi Moretti (vicegerens, see CIC c. 134 § 1 and Art. 15 Ecclesia in Urbe). Saying the local ordinary implies that there is only one, and that is incorrect.
- The episcopal see and the church it serves are not the same thing. Granted, see can mean many different things depending on the context and the era, but in the sense of this article, holy see either means (1) the office that presides over the diocese of Rome and whose possessor necessarily presides over the ecclesiastical province, the Italian church, the Latin church, and is successor to Simon Peter and presides over the catholic Church or (2) the juridic entity comprised of the office mentioned in #1 and the Roman Curia (CIC c. 361), to the exclusion of the diocese (see Pastor Bonus and Ecclesia in Urbe). The opening sentence seems to suggest that Holy See = diocese of Rome, which is certainly correct in a figurative sense, as in the Bishop is figuratively his diocese and vice versa, but not in a juridic or diplomatic sense, which is the scope of this article.
Pmadrid 09:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] RCC vs. CC edit warring
Wikipedia recognizes that both RCC and CC are valid names for the Church, and it doesn't take sides saying one is better than the other. In the case of a conflict, we must look to the style of the earliest contributor. In this case RCC was used first by Simon_J_Kissane on 08:12, 14 October 2001. I'd urge editors to just accept this, and find much more productive ways to contribute istead of arguing over a single silly word.--Andrew c 04:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
