Talk:Hogwarts/Archive 1

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Contents 1 Location 2 Mapping the School 3 Ravenclaw 4 Moving this page 5 Rooms in the School 6 Filius Flitwick's first name 7 Detention at Hogwarts page 8 Image 9 Ravenclaw's mascot 10 Uniform 11 Origin of the name 'Hogwarts' 12 #Portkey 13 The Future of Hogwarts 14 Headteacher: spoiler? 15 Hogwarts house point section history 16 History of Magic classroom location? 17 Floor Directory? 18 Annual advancement 19 DES??? 20 Fanfic? 21 Student Numbers 22 Location of Durmstrang 23 the syllabus might contain one muggle subject 24 A Nazi little secret? 25 Name 26 Blazon 27 Enrollment 28 Staff, past and present 29 About the suggested merge (staff - teachers) 30 Blazon copyright 31 Rejected from Oxford? 32 Organization 33 Cleanup tag 34 Origin of name is not from a flower! 35 Rewrite

[edit] Location

There was lots of discussion on Talk:Harry Potter about whether it's in Scotland or not. It is - for more, please see that talk page. For convenience here is one piece of evidence from there: "Hogwarts ... Logically it had to be set in a secluded place, and pretty soon I settled on Scotland in my mind." Fraser, L., An interview with J.K. Rowling, Mammoth, London, 2000. ISBN 0-7497-4394-8. pp 20-21. Nevilley 11:52 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)

I'd say no to it's in Scotland. Yes, there are good reasons to think it's in Scotland, but the book never states that: ask yourself why ? Perhaps does Scotland not even exist in the fictional world that the book describes ;-) Even the fact that J.K.Rowlings gets her inspiration from Scotland does not mean that she thinks that the Castle has to be in Scotland. It just has to be in a secluded place, and in order not to perturbate the readers, she makes them think that that secluded place might be Scotland. (Although some readers appear not to think the expected way.) The difference, of course, is slight, and perhaps I'm just being pedantic here, but it feels significant to me. That's akin to the difference between fact and fiction. --FvdP 19:59 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Having written that, I just read this: In one of the Comic Relief books (Fabulous Beasts and Where To Find Them), the author mentions that a nest of horrific giant spiders (I forget the exact name) has been rumoured to exist in a forest in Scotland. There is an annotation by Harry (or Ron) that says "confirmed by Harry Potter and Ron Weasley". Presumably this refers to when they meet Aragog in Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets. (in Talk:Harry Potter) so yes, maybe is Hogwarts in Scotland after all... --FvdP 20:05 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I think if there is a lack of clarity in the articles, it's better to make the articles clearer, and to add the references there, rather than doing so in the talk pages. Otherwise the same questions will come up again and again. -- Oliver P. 01:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Good idea --FvdP

I think the fact that the author says it's in Scotland does a lot to clear up the 'unclarity', doesn't it? -- Someone else 01:44 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Except that she says "Scotland in my mind" not "Scotland in the book"  ;-) --FvdP 17:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

About the localisations of the schools I hace produced the following map. Click on the map for the text that details the reason for the locations. Please feel free to discuss. I am seriously interested in knowing what you guys think.Lag 21:53, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapping the School

The school does not appear on Muggle maps, but it is not "unplottable": Harry gets hold of an enchanted map showing every passge, corridor and room in Hogwarts' grounds and where any person in the grounds is (see Marauder's Map). shows .... --Uncle Ed 19:43 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've removed "The school is unplotable (cannot found on a map)". According to this page in "The Harry Potter Lexicon", "Hogwarts also has wards and spells on it to hide its true nature from Muggles, but it is apparently not Unplottable." -- Oliver P. 01:37 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

• Unplottable may meean it's location cannot be mapped, but this would not prevent a map of Hogwarts such as the Maurauder's Map, which does not reveal the location. Supersaiyanplough|^(talk) 11:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

This is a fairly dumb discussion, but isn't the map really more of a bunch of names moving around and the names of buildings and objects rather than maps? Dan 23:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ravenclaw

One quick correction that should be made: The mascot of the Ravenclaw house is not the eagle, but the Raven, hence the name. The eagle, especially in American mythology, has been a symbol of courage and morality, not for intelligence. The raven on the other hand has long been a symbol of intelligence in mythology and literature.

• Sorry, but you are wrong. When Warner Brothers started to make the movie, they changed it to a raven for their movies, to make it flow, but traditionally Ravenclaw is represented by an eagle. And it really doesn't matter what symbols were in mythology and literature, because, though influenced by mythology and literature, this is J.K.Rolwing's book, and she may do what she pleases with it. Billvoltage 04:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving this page

If anyone wishes to move this page, could they please use the "Move this page" function, to preserve the article history? Thanks. I'm not sure a move is necessary, though. The school is often referred to as just "Hogwarts", and the opening line gives the full name anyway. -- Oliver P. 16:35, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Rooms in the School

If you have an article here on the Chamber of Secrets, you should also have one on the other rooms at Hogwarts. Your description of the school houses are very short. The writer didn't go into a lot of detail. User:12.203.10.240

Wikipedia is a collaborative project - anyone is free to edit the articles, to add to them, and to improve them in any way that they see fit. There is no single "writer" responsible for any of the articles. Anyone who comes here is free to write in any of the articles. Including you. If you think the article can be improved, just go for it! :) -- Oliver P. 21:32, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

---

I moved the stuff about the Chamber of Secrets to the part about the founding of the school. It fits better there.

[edit] Filius Flitwick's first name

I listed Filius as Flitwick's first name, because the Harry Potter Lexicon said "Warwick Davis, in an interview with Comingsoon.com, indicated that JKR had told him that Flitwick's first name was Filius," and, as it was noted at the Lexicon, this may be second-hand, but it's still canon.

[edit] Detention at Hogwarts page

The Detention at Hogwarts page has turned out to be copyed from the Harry Potter Lexicon. The link here has been deleted until further notice. This is due to my beilef that the author didn't realize the "no copyrighting policy" and we may want to recreate the link if the author replaces this article with an orginal one.

The author of Detentions at Hogwarts page has decided to let the page be deleted. The page has now been deleted.

---

Hi, I'm back! I've noticed my absence has gone completly unoticed.

== Too long? ==http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogwarts Article

I like the article pretty much but isn't it too long being one article? Can we split off some sections? -- Taku

I don't think it is too long. It's less than 30kb. There isn't really anything substantial enough to split off. We don't want to end up with lots of stub relating to Harry Potter, which is why I think they have been merged in here. Angela 07:12, Oct 18, 2003 (UTC)

One possibility is to split off the floor directory into a linked article. Its already very long and there are several rooms which are still not listed. Jarwulf 04:40, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

Wholehearted agreement that we should split off the floor directory - it may be interesting but it really bogs down the rest of the article. A linked article for this section would be a much, much better idea - a bit like an appendix to the main article, which is what that kind ofexhaustive information list really is. Peeper 10:22, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

I've split off the floor directory. I'm wondering whether the grounds section should go too and be consolidated with the directory. Jarwulf 02:50, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image

What's the status on the image heading this article? Has Warner Brothers released it into the public domain? I find this extremely dubious, especially given the watermark present on it. - Korath 02:25, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Ravenclaw's mascot

Concerning Ravenclaw's mascot: even though the raven is symbolically associated with intelligence rather than the eagle and I would have liked the raven to be Ravenclaw's mascot as it really makes more sense, I still think the eagle is the mascot of Ravenclaw House.

Some pieces of proof include:

• Chapter Three (The Letters from No One) from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, where Hogwarts' coat of arms on the envelope is described as "a lion, an eagle, a badger and a snake surrounding a large letter 'H'"
• The Harry Potter Lexicon's entry on Ravenclaw (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/hogwarts/houses/ravenclaw.html), where Ravenclaw's animal is listed as "eagle". The sidebar also features a possible reason for Ravenclaw's mascot not being a raven.
• The fact that Gryffindor's mascot is not a griffin or a hippogriff, despite what its name suggests, and
• The card "Ravenclaw Eagle" from the Harry Potter Trading Card Game as part of a cycle of cards featuring the mascots of the houses.

I hope the proof is sufficient to warrant my editing the article to that effect. Sinistro 22:50, 22 May 2004 (UTC)

Some anti-proof and assorted comments:

• the coat of arms on the first pages of the books clearly shows a lion with wings (maybe you should care about that a bit more than about the thing from the movies)
• the Hufflepuffs play Quidditch in yellow robes, not golden. Yellow on gold wouldn't show clearly though, so i guess it wouldn't be allowed in heraldry. gold on gold isn't possible though, so the whole coat doesn't work that way ("no metal on metal, no color on color"). according to the coat depicted in the books, field III is black. that would work. cfr. http://www.rarebooks.nd.edu/digital/heraldry/colors.html
• the badger is proper, not sable.
• if you took above comment about the Ravenclaw eagle seriously, you'd have to mention the black talons in the blazon. But what about the beak? Also black?

[edit] Uniform

I suspect there to be some movie contamination in the description of the Hogwarts uniform: I don't recall anything except robes being described in the books. --Phil | Talk 13:49, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

• Actually Phil, I have my soft-back copy of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone right here, and it says:

"Uniform

• First year students will require:
  • 1. Three sets of plain work robes (black)
  • 2. One plain pointed hat (black) for day wear
  • 3. One pair of protective glvoes (dragon hide or similar)
  • 4. One winter cloak (black, silver fastenings)
• Please note that all pupils' clothes should carry name tags"

It goes on to discuss the books pupils will need, their wands, and a short note about pets and broomsticks. It has four items that clealy say UNIFORM before them, and thus, are a school uniform. Billvoltage 04:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

---

This article is weird. Fiction gets carried so far and the description is so detailed for something fictional. Nicely written however. — Stevey7788 (talk) 05:19, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Maybe this shouldn't be on the talk page, but I've always had a problem with the way the uniforms were represented in the movies. If wizards dress so strangely to muggle viewer's, why would children in school wear regular shirts and ties? If most wizards can't even pretend to dress normally when they have to go to muggle towns, why do the children dress as if at a regular boarding school? Whatever, maybe I'm just picky. ABart26 20:55, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

ABart, you aren't the only one. Starting in the third film, the children started to abandon their uniforms. This isn't relevant to the article, but yes, they started getting relaxed with their choice of costumes. It was likely done for the movie to relate the trio more to the audience of children. However, do note that the uniform note above says "First year students will require…" so it may be that after that it is no longer required. Still, it is an unfortunate liberty they took in the movies. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 21:10, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of the name 'Hogwarts'

Rowling has said that she doesn't recall where she got the name 'Hogwarts'. In a couple of interviews (linked to below), she ventured that she may have been exposed to the name on a visit to Kew Gardens, where apparently a type of lily called 'Hogwarts' can be seen.

Hence, I would like to delete the following statement from the article: "J.K. Rowling took the name Hogwarts from a fictional Latin play in a Molesworth book by Geoffrey Willans."

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/0999-familyeducation-abel.htm

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2001/1001-sydney-renton.htm

[edit] #Portkey

User:Lord Voldemort changed a link to the Portkey section in the article Magical objects in Harry Potter so that it now links to the main article and not the section. Was there a reason to do it? --Jotomicron | talk 30 June 2005 20:31 (UTC)

Whoops, my mistake. I'll check on that. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:24, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Fixed now. --Lord Voldemort ^{(Dark Mark)} 16:27, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Future of Hogwarts

There would have to be #some# educational institute in Britain - and Hogwarts is there.

What would happen in the UK is that it would be renamed, rearranged and continue.

If anyone wishes to develop this fanficwise, please do so. jackiespeel

[edit] Headteacher: spoiler?

Isn't listing McGonagall as acting headteacher a bit of a book 6 spoiler? I know it's true, but maybe we should wait a bit before revealing it here, to give everyone a chance to finish the book... --Urbane legend 14:57, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

I stuck a {{spoiler}} on top. --Deathphoenix 15:27, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Well I could have done that I suppose :-) But it also says it in the box under the picture, too. Maybe there should be nothing there about the headteacher at all? I'll remove it, in the spirit of being bold, and we can debate it if anyone thinks it should be put back. --Urbane legend 21:58, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm. The template doesn't allow it. Does anyone else even think this is important, or is it just me? --Urbane legend 22:03, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes it is a spoiler - it ruined the book for me. --Guest 14:46, 20 November 2005 (EST)

The idea that there is a "current" head of Hogwarts is nonsense. The Harry Potter universe is a work a fiction, and it is standard written practice to write about fiction in the perpetual present. It doesn't make any sense for an infobox about a fictional entity to have sections that purport to contain "current" information. The section should simply be removed. Nohat 18:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

There is a current Head Of Hogwarts if you are going by the current book, and yes since it's fiction, there is no Hogwarts at all.

[edit] Hogwarts house point section history

Considering it is from another article, I had to add the list of contributions considering it is required under the GFDL. MessedRocker 00:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

1. (cur) (last) 12:32, July 24, 2005 Alarm (add context - especially the rather important fact that this is fictional)
2. (cur) (last) 10:36, July 24, 2005 Joel7687 m
3. (cur) (last) 18:04, July 19, 2005 65.6.44.182
4. (cur) (last) 13:21, July 19, 2005 66.31.35.185

[edit] History of Magic classroom location?

While I'm sure the school is quite magical, the History of Magic classroom is probably on only one floor at a time, not the first and fourth simultaneously.

• The link given to the Harry Potter Lexicon lists it as being on the first floor, so I'm going with that. WayneC 05:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Floor Directory?

Would a floor directory similar to the one seen in the Ministry of Magic article be possible here? --BoboDaHobo 20:28, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Technically, that list you mentioned is already compiled in book 5. A similar list for Hogwarts would have to be compiled by hand, and i don't think anyone is doing that... -- Jokes Free4Me 16:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Annual advancement

the article seems to imply that students need to pass exams to move up to the next year. This is not normally a feature of british education and I do not remember anything in the books suggesting it. rather, it seems more likely that you move up with your classmates despite your poor achievements.Sandpiper 21:41, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

You need to score at a certain levels on the OWL for a subject to be allowed to move up to NEWT level classes in that subject. Remember in book 6 when (SPOILER AHEAD SPOILER AHEAD SPOILER AHEAD) Harry almost wasn't able to take NEWT level Potions because while he'd passed, Snape only allowed top-scorring students into his NEWL level classes? --Icarus 03:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DES???

It is mentioned that the school has a high degree of autonomy from the DES. Does that explain why I have been unable to discover its Ofsted report? Or does that mean that a better phrasing would be that it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the DES or any mainstream educational or governmental organisation. Sandpiper 22:10, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

lol, for a moment I thought you were serious! Cute :-) --Icarus 03:35, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm the author of the offending mention, just trying to keep the serious encyclopaedic tone we must try to maintain on Wikipedia ;). If anybody really objects, feel free to remove it, but I don't see anything wrong with the phrasing - the Muggle government is mentioned in HBP, so making clear what Hogwarts's relationship is with the Muggle DfES (DfES, by the way) seems fine to me. Perhaps a little wry, but can we really be 100% serious when this is an article about Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry? Peeper 10:16, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Fanfic?

• "the West Castle, which holds ... the Sario Hall..."
• "Ravenclaw is on the fourth floor facing the North Courtyard, and beside Fervens Hall and the Statue of Stela the Saviour."

Where do the Sario Hall and Fervens Hall come from? I don't remember them from any of the books. I suppose it's possible for Ravenclaw to be on the west side of the castle but face the North Courtyard. I'm just wondering if some of these details are taken from fanfic(s), rather than the actual books. --158.152.22.26 02:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't remember a Sario Hall or Fervens Hall either, but they could be coming from the official video games or another legit source. I'd prefer a reference too, but I'm giving these the benefit of the doubt. --Icarus 07:07, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't believe these comments are current any longer (as I could find no reference to 'Sario' or 'Fervens' in the article), but nevertheless this points out precisely why citations are needed. Especially for any obscure bits of trivia. fruitofwisdom 03:13, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Student Numbers

Somewhere I recall a discussion about the number of students, but I can't find it. Anyway, in HBP p379 uk, Hagrid says Yer expect accidents, don' yeh, with hundreds of under-age wizards all locked up tergether. Now, some languages use different words to differentiate number plurals, eg for 2 hundreds, or 3 hundreds or whatever. Maybe this doen't help much, but the phrasing in english would suggest at least 3 hundreds, i would think. Sandpiper 17:43, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I've just removed the total for 'enrollment' in the table. We have the rough figure of 1000 which is speculative enough (based on comments in an interview I think -reference to that would be helpful), but until we can provide evidence of the number of students entering I don't think there's any point battering the article reader with 280 here and 40 there and 1000 divided by the number of year groups...seems to be straying into speculation. Happy for others to disagree or put a number back, but it just needs to be backed up by evidence and not mired in inconsistency - particularly as JK Rowling has consistently expressed her reservations about trying to find mathematical rigidity in the series. Peeper 12:49, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Somebody made this addition to the table:However in 'The Chamber of Secrets' Rowling writes that there are 5 new boys and 5 new girls in each house, in each new year. Therefore the logical conclusion is that there are about 40 students per year and roughly 280 in total.

I have removed this edit, not out of criticism but just because it doesn't add anything to what is already contained in the table. If the general feeling is that we should pick one of the numbers and run with it that's fine, do go ahead...but my personal view is that, as it is far from certain, and JK Rowling is never too keen to be pinned down on maths, then we may as well be vague. As long as the article is concise, clear and sourced, I'm happy. Peeper 13:54, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Well then you should not be happy as it is not currently 'concise, clear and sourced' due to the fact that firstly the source of the interviews or when they occured is not mentioned and secondly it is highly ambiguous. It states that she envisaged 40 students per year and a 1,000 in general. Knowing that there are 7 years at Hogwarts you do not have to be a genius to work out that this leaves a huge discrepancy. To simply state the JK Rowling doesn't like to get involved in the maths of her world is just sweeping the issue under the carpet. I provided a quote from the text which the article is about which describes the number of students, and it is deleted, to me this makes no sense.

Please sign your posts and assume good faith, or at least don't be grouchy. As I also said, please edit as you see fit. Personally, I don't think that getting all steamed up about how many students there are at Hogwarts is a particularly valuable exercise for the reader. This is a fictional universe, and there's no point trying to force a meaning out of JK Rowling's statements when she clearly does not have an absolutely correct answer in mind. But if the general consensus is to go ahead with some kind of speculative number, then fire away. I just feel that, given that finding a 'true' figure is both impossible and unnecessary, it is better to concentrate on making this a good article rather than a repository for every last attempt to squeeze factual information from what is, ultimately, amorphous fiction. Edit away. But please make sure that your sentence structure and tone are correct - this remains an encyclopaedia. Thanks. Peeper 19:15, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Location of Durmstrang

Victor Krum is a Bulgarian. He plays for the Bulgarian Quidditich Team. So surely, Durmstrang is a Bulgarian School.--M Johnson 01:37, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

This is unlikely to be that simple. About the localisations of the schools I hace produced the following map. Click on the map for the text that details the reason for the locations. Please feel free to discuss. I am seriously interested in knowing what you guys think. Lag 22:06, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:HP_possible_European_wichcraft_schools_locations.JPG

[edit] the syllabus might contain one muggle subject

"Students are taught a range of subjects all based around the magical arts. None of the standard academic disciplines taught in Muggle institutions appears to be on the syllabus."

if i'm not mistaken, isn't arithmancy on the syllabus?

Arithmancy and Arithmetic are two different things altogether. --165.21.154.116 08:47, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] A Nazi little secret?

Some highly conservative Christians also claim that Himmler's planned SS officer training school and ritual headquarters in Wewelsburg Castle served has the model for Hogwarts. I have removed this edit as it looks implausible and, if it is to be included, really ought to have some kind of reference if it isn't going to look like an attempt to goad 'highly conservative Christians'. And at the very least it should probably be reworded. But if it is true and reliable, then by all means let's have it back in.Peeper 17:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

On a radio program a couple years ago I heard Jerry Falwell quoted as making this statement. I have not yet been able to find documentation of it on the internet, but I will keep searching. --RPlunk 00:15, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Crikey. I was hoping it was just some entertaining, if inflammatory, vandalism. Never mind, keep up the search; if I turn anything up I'll post here, and eventually we can put the reference back in once it's sourced... Peeper 09:37, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

It's hard finding radio program records; no luck needles to say. However, here is a website written buy a 'conservative christian' nut-bar : [1]. Enjoy their babble.

[edit] Name

Doesn't the name "Hogwarts" sound like a reverse of the name "warthog"? 4.158.60.91 03:17, 18 December 2005 (UTC) It is actually an anagram of "warthogs". I checked on a website called "Andy's Anagram Finder". Jonathan235

uh yeah wow.. I'm pretty sure you don't need an anagram finder to realize it's an anagram of warthogs. The words are already there.. anyway, what's your point? Isn't the more obvious reference Hog warts? As in warts on a hog/pig? Dan 23:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blazon

I can't figure out what in the heck this is supposed to mean. The sentences make absolutely no sense to me. Any ideas? Dan 23:21, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Are you asking about this?

Shield renaissance, Quarterly,

I gules a lion salient to sinister Or,

II vert a serpent argent,

III Or a badger reguardant proper,

IV azure an eagle displayed Or,

in fesse couped Or scroll with letter H sable,

top riband for the name Hogwarts,

base riband for the motto "draco dormiens nunquam titillandus".

If that is what you are asking about, it is a technical description of the Hogwarts blazon, using words and syntax from the usual heraldry vocabulary and grammar. Lgriot 17:32, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enrollment

The footnote to "signed up when born" in the summary table should point to #Enrollment_and_Arrival, not #endnote_enrolment [sic] as it currently does. But I don't know how to fix it. Kenta2 05:15, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Staff, past and present

This is completely absurd. While it may not be useless, it's foolish to have it on this page taking up so much vertical space and little horizontal. I think we should create a new page for it and then link it. Dan 17:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello 71.99.124.115, Could you please provide a citation for Petigrew having taught at Hogwarts? I have never read any such thing, so I would be interested. Also, as Dan says, please avoid putting capital-letter-angry notes in the main article, it does not make them look good, there are discussion pages for explaning your edits. Thanks. Lgriot 20:29, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

• Sorry for the capital letters, and if you would like to put the Staff, Past And Present on a new page, by all means, do so, but please put the link on this page, and Peter Pettigrew was a mistake, she meant it to be him and not Crouch, Jr. to kidnap Moody. It will be removed A.S.A.P.

Pettigrew's been removed.

[edit] About the suggested merge (staff - teachers)

I would rather put this list into the Hogwarts teachers page. Given that Filtch is there, the page would have to be renamed Horgwarts staff. And there should be definitely be a link between this page and the other. Lgriot 10:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

That's fine with me. See Talk:Hogwarts teachers#Merge to Hogwarts. However, I think the page Hogwarts teachers (or staff, whatever it should be named) needs a serious rewrite. And then what's to become of the Minor Hogwarts teachers page? --Fbv65edel ^{(discuss | contribs)} 13:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi, this is Minervamoon, and I completely agree with merging it, and I would hve done if I knew how, but as with the minor Hogwarts Teachers, that may have to either be deleted or create different pages for them all, but yeah merging would be good. (You can delete the Pince-Filch, Lupin-Tokns part, that was a joke)

No, that was NOT Minervamoon: That was my godforsaken f***ing little brother, who thinks it's cool to edit Wikipedia under my name. Do whatever you damn please with the edit, because it's definitely NOT mine, but instead the work of an OCD kid. Minervamoon 01:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blazon copyright

The school logo, or blazon, has a copyright statement saying it is the logo of an organization and as such is OK to use. However, I don't think this is appropriate, since (sadly) Hogwarts is not an actual organization. Does anyone know who created the image and what the actual copyright status is? If not, I think a note needs to be posted on the image page that it has a potential copyright problem. Mike Christie 12:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I see that the image you are talking about has been removed, but an image of the Hogwarts Crest would be great to have here. I know that the Bloomsbury (British) editions have an image of the blazon at the beginning. I'll scan it if someone will give me feedback on fair use rationale. Phi*n!x 20:46, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rejected from Oxford?

"Rowling sought a place at Oxford University, but was rejected, in her eyes on prejudicial grounds similar to those espoused by "pure-blood" advocates at Hogwarts."

What's the source for this? I've searched her interviews and googled about this and can't find anything like this. - A random passer by

[edit] Organization

I notice that there are two sections that have "grounds" in their titles, and they seem to have somewhat redundant information at parts. Perhaps someone should merge these.

Also, it would be good to add an image to the infobox, such as the WB picture of Hogwarts, or maybe a Hogwarts crest. If the Hogwarts crest were to go in the infobox, the same could probably be done with the Beauxbatons and Durmstrang, also; this would create better continuity across the WP:WPHP articles. Phi*n!x 21:03, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup tag

I added a cleanup tag because of a large number of problems in the way the article is laid out.

For example, Houses are mentioned throughout the article, but are only introduced and defined halfway through, possibly leading readers to wonder what Houses are until they get to that point. A large number of information is also repeated. I beleive the layout of this article needs to be seriously reconsidered. E946 05:45, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of name is not from a flower!

I heard "hogwarts" actually means a kind early medieval (black ages) earthen fortress. Many such fortifications were built by tribal english. The wizard school was probably built on the former site of one such construction, this is why it appears to be a ruin when seen by muggles. 195.70.32.136 09:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

JK Rowling herself has said that it comes from a flower. See [2]. See her response to the question. "Do you put images from your dreams into your books?" --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 16:50, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

After seeing the disorganized state of the current article, I decided that it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this article. I set up a user subpage to edit behind the scenes. i'm more or less done, and I want to make sure nobody has a problem with it before I make the change (Which is why I put in the template)

There's only a few issues right now, including:

• Bad introduction
• Bad layout and grounds section

The new article can be found here. Please make any changes you want. In a week, I'll copy everything over to this article if nobody has any major objections.

E946 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

E946, if you don't mind, I'm going to make a few changes to your draft. You can of course revert or change them as you like, they're just things which were recently added to the article which are not present. Good work! --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Something to consider rewriting this article: I think that Wikipedia policy only allows one screenshot on a page, but the draft currently has 3. I haven't seen this anywhere except as a note above the screenshots section under "licensing" on the upload page, and I'm not sure if this is a matter of copyright or of style. Also, I added a link to the WikiProject talk page to alert the community. Should the rewriting be noted anywhere else? -Phi*n!x 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard that, actually. I just saw a good picture of the sorting hat in another article so I added it. Where can we go to ask if it's okay? E946 05:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has at least five screenshots or so. I don't know, though, if it's closely monitored. I think, if you go by the reasoning that it's to help illustrate the topic in question, it's considered fair use. The Sorting Hat, then, is fine, because you want to illustrate the Sorting ceremony. To ask, you should probably try the Village pump (technical). --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

You can to User talk:QuarterZ#Images. This user wanted User:AndyZ to upload an image of Snape (He didn't know how to at a time) and Andy didn't want to because there were to many screenshots there. Another one is the history of Ron Weasley where User:T-dot removed screenshots so there was very little and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film). Any articles having 2 or more screenshots; one needs to be removed. You can see WP:FUC for the violation rule. Carmelapple 14:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

From what I see, WP:FUC doesn't specifically say that there should be only one screenshot, but that unfree images should be as limited as possible (rule #3). I agree that the ways the images are being used on the Hogwarts draft are fine and legal, but I am curious if we can figure out what's up with the policy. (On a side note, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe page has eight screenshots and I have suggested on its talk page that this be changed.) Also, I have posted this before on this talk page: wouldn't a Hogwarts blazon be an appropriate image for the article? I'll scan one from a Bloomsbury edition if I can get help with the fair use rationale. -Phi*n!x 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty much impossible to describe the blazon without a picture, you're not stopping them from selling any books, and you're not making a profit. There's your fair use. E946 09:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If nobody else has any problems with this, then i'll just change it over when I wake up later today. E946 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)