Talk:Hoagie

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Contents 1 Hogg Island 2 Read the Delco Times article linked in this article. 3 Not only a Philadelphian food 4 Cheese hoagie 5 Cut vertically? 6 Portal

[edit] Hogg Island

My father-in-law, an Italian immigrant who worked on Hogg Island tells a slightly different story. The men who worked on Hogg Island were not ship builders but rather ship destroyers, cutting up old ships for scrap metal to be used in the war effort. Several men were chosen to be cooks each day. It was their sole responsibility to prepare lunch each day. An account was kept and on pay day each man paid for his lunches. In addition to hoagie sandwiches, sausages, pork chops and chickens marinated in olive oil and Italian herbs, were laced onto poker-spits and cooked over a wood fire. As the meat cooked, the pokers were removed from the fire and blotted on split loaves of crusty Italian bread allowing the juices to soak into the bread. He also spoke of shooting song birds in the New Jersey pine barrens and cooking them on the pokers. Originally posted by 130.49.221.74.

That fact they were building (and not destroying) ships at the yard on Hog Island is well documented and verifiable. See our article on the subject (this article unfortunately fails to cite its sources, so let's recity that!).ike9898 20:47, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Read the Delco Times article linked in this article.

I've read the Delco Times article... I'm completely unconvinced. Nowhere is an explanation for the term "hoagie" as in the Philadelphia based narrative and nowhere is there an explanation of how the sandwich migrated to Philadelphia. Unlikely story.

I don't think the article meant to doubt the Hog Island account. I am sure that the Hog Island account is true. The point may have been that the actual sandwhich was developed in Chester, and DePalma came up with the name when he saw the men eating the sandwhiches. Chester isn't too far from Hog Island.

By the way, someone should post the original hoagie story...

Here are two versions in a single article: http://citypaper.net/articles/070695/article020.shtml --BillFlis 13:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not only a Philadelphian food

I've had hoagies as far north as Canada, and some of the best hoagies I have ever had were from North Eastern PA establishments (they were even listed as "hoagies" on the menu). To say that they are local to Philadelphia is ridiculous. --204.152.176.70 22:00, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, yeah, subs are everywhere, but the name "hoagie" (like "cheesesteak") is very much associated with Philadelphia, just like "muffuletta" is associated with New Orleans and "baguette" with France. BillFlis 12:35, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

My experience is that decent implementations of a hoagie can be found with ease within a radius of 100 miles of Philadelphia. This includes samples from as far afield as Easton, Lancaster, Camden, Wilmington, and even Baltimore. New York tends to get it wrong, and the proper bread is not available locally in Washington DC. I'm not so sure about this "vinegar" thing; I've been pretty strenuous about avoiding posting on controversial subjects, but as a Delaware native who used to work in Center City, the choices are "oil" or "mayo"; never seen "vinegar" among the offerings in a traditional sub shop (the Quizno's, Jerry's, and Subway chains need not apply, mkay?). Anyone else share this opinion? Ke4djt 13:09 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that vinegar is not standard on hoagies. I'm dropping it from the article. ike9898 20:42, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I've visited at least three Lee's Hoagie Houses (it's a rather loose chain), and I don't remember seeing anything but oil and mayo. But Dietz & Watson markets a "hoagie dressing" of oil, seasonings (mainly oregano), and, I think, a little vinegar, making it a sort of Italian salad dressing; unfortunately, their website doesn't even show this product. Salumeria, of Reading Terminal, offers also a "hoagie spread", which looks creamy, like a seasoned mayo (I like it, even though I'm sort of morally opposed to mayo on a hoagie--what is that, a French hoagie?).

[edit] Cheese hoagie

"There are cheese-only hoagies (Provolone, American, or Mixed), which replace the meat with extra slices of cheese, but many Philadelphians will not admit such is a hoagie." That last bit is rather POV, and what's more, I don't agree with it. Cheese hoagies are widespread and have been around as long as I can remember (30 or more years). Cavanaugh's used to make a nice one with Provolone, American, and, believe it or not, Swiss cheese; I'll take mine with "hots"! Lee's Hoagie House's menu lists a Cheese Hoagie: http://www.leeshoagiehouse.com/images/menu.pdf BillFlis 00:44, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I think I put some variation that "Philadephians won't admit such is a hoagie" but it was only revised, never removed. I think the premise was that original hoagies are what today the shops label "Italian Hoagies." Since then it has derived into many other varieties. And, unfortunately as was also discussed on this page, places like Pittsburgh have drastically altered the original hoagie and still call it "hoagie." Dan 01:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cut vertically?

I've moving this: "Hoagie rolls are always cut vertically, in the same manner that a hot dog bun is cut." here to the Discussion page because it's not factual. Not trusting my own recollection, I found several pix of hoagies on the web [1] [2] [3] [4] which clearly show them cut sideways. I remember seeing them cut vertically in some places too, but I can't even find any evidence of that on the web. Furthermore, just about all the hotdog buns I buy are cut horizontally too.--BillFlis 13:54, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Portal

Hi. Please refrain from spamming the Philadelphia portal template on articles that are only tangentially related to the city. While it's acceptable to use on articles relating directly to the city, putting it on articles like Pretzel, Hoagie, and Stromboli is taking things too far. Thanks. - EurekaLott 04:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

• I really want to assume good faith about your post, so before I take offense at your use of the word spam I am going to post my justification. The article is listed under Category:Philadelphia cuisine, and features Philadelphia in the article. Philadelphia is an eating-town. The portal is appropriate. --South Philly 13:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Hoagies are Subs. Don't use the word Sub.