Talk:HMNB Clyde

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Don't they also have weapons storage facilities at Glen Douglas, off the road that leads by Glen Fruin to Loch Lomond? ...dave souza, talk 11:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes. You can very clearly see the big lumps in the hillside as you travel along the road through the glen. I once went that way as a shortcut(!) back to Glasgow when the traffic on Loch Lomondside was at a standstill - very, very glad I did, it was stinking hot, clamy weather, and a light sea breeze was just what I needed.--Mais oui! 15:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RNAD Coulport - history

A pdf source has been given for Coulport being constructed between '63 and '68, but there was a lot of construction work there in the '80s which included a new road there bypassing Garelochhead. Probably to do with adaptations for Trident. ...dave souza, talk 21:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Faslane 365 arrests

I've just edited the following statement in the article:

As of 20 November 2006, there have been 301 arrests, mostly for breach of the peace, but only one charge.

I've referenced www.faslane365.org for the facts that there have been 301 arrests and only one charge, but have left the {{fact}} tag in place as we still need a source for the fact that these arrests have mostly been for breach of the peace. As there are no charges being levelled against the protestors I doubt there will be a source available in the public domain to confirm why they were arrested, but I will write to Strathclyde Police to see if they are able to confirm what charge people are being arrested under. As far as I know the one charge so far was for a guy who parked a minibus across the north gate, got arrested and released without charge, and then drove his minibus back to blockade the north gate again: he was charged so they could get an order against him, preventing him from going within a certain distance of Faslane. However, I'll leave this information out until I have a decent source for it. --Jim (Talk) 12:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The Faslane 365 website is not independent and requires corroboration. The website is not adequately independent to be reliable.

The protests now have their own article, which is the place for the level of granularity you wish to insert. Given the projected length of the effort including every arrest in this article will create a disproportionate bias. Feel free to include a list in the protests article, which should be complimentary to this one, not a duplicate of a section. The Summary Style guidance provides some information on this.

ALR 13:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi ALR: I wasn't aware that the protests had their own article until now, so I will add the information there in the future. It will be difficult to substantiate the number of arrests from a source other than faslane365.org, simply because the Police are not charging anyone: all information about the arrests is therefore destroyed, by law. I will look around for more source on this and contact the guys at Faslane365 to see if they are able to offer any information: every blockade has a legal observer who writes down who is arrested, so I guess this would be a good start if we could get hold of a copy of the information.

I disagree with your deletion of the fact that the protesters are getting arrested for breach of the peace since even though it hasn't been substantiated yet it is a useful "flag" to have so that if someone does know where to substantiate it they can add the source. I don't want to get into an edit war over this (I guess you could say I'm practising non-violent Wikipedia editing :) ) so I'll add the info to the article on the protests, for now, along with a {{fact}} tag. If and when the fact is cited I'll add it back here, as I think it's a very relevant fact.

--Jim (Talk) 14:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

If the reasons for arrest can be substantiated then thats fine, but it needs to be published and handwritten recording by an involved individual doesn't constitute publication. Other than that it is speculation. I'm sure you'll say that the observer isn't involved, but he who pays the piper....

You yourself added a dead link for an article on the topic the other day, although I note that someone redirected that to the camp article subsequently.

ALR 17:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a very tricky area, that's for sure. I take your point regarding the interests of the legal observers, but how far can we actually extend this: who is paying (literally, rather than metaphorically as is the case with the legal observers) the police?

Strathclyde Police have been pretty good so far at Faslane365, so I'll see if they'll be able to release a list of who has been arrested; but legally I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to keep records if they don't prosecture. I'll have a bit of a think about this and see if there's a way round it: maybe if we collated all the news reports relating to arrests at Faslane we could say something along the lines of "at least xxx people have been arrested". --Jim (Talk) 18:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, that would be a breach of the Data Protection Act so I'm pretty sure the force wouldn't do it. And they could reasonably be accused of something or other since releasing arrest details of someone who has not been charged could reasonably prejudice an individuals privacy in some way.

I don't see an issue with an aggregated figure, as long as that can be substantiated. I just think the creeping death of listing every issue for the next 11 months will end up swamping the reader in extraneous detail, particularly where the base is a lot more than just the home to the deterrent force.

ALR 20:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)