Talk:History of dog fighting breeds

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I dedicate this article my several Apostle's who do so enjoy following their God around the Wiki ! Do You Have Any Elves I Can Mash Elf-Masher 10:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ancient use of dogs in war

To the best of my knowledge, dogs were not extensively used in battle by anyone, ever. Until someone can provide citations from reliable sources (history books and encyclopediae and contemporary accounts, not dog-lover sites), I'm removing the section on this. —Simetrical (talk) 04:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Citations, many times they were used in combat, google

• 2100 BC Hammurabi equipped his warrior with huge dogs.
• 628 BC Lydians deployed a separate battalion of fighting dogs.
• 525 BC Cambyses II of Persia used huge fighting dogs against Egyptian spearmen and archers.
• 490 BC Battle of Marathon a brave fighting dog was immortalized in a mural.
• 385 BC Siege of Mantineia fighting dogs cut off enemy reinforcements.
• 50 AD Rome conquers Britain giant fighting dogs are discovered and exported for the Colosseum.
• 101 AD Battle of Vercellae large Kimber dogs led by women defend their laagers.
• 101 AD Romans employ one dog fighting company per legion.
• 1525 AD Henry VIII exports 400 Mastiffs to support Spain.
• 1580 AD Elizabeth I sends 800 fighting dogs to fight in the Desmond Rebellions.
• 1799 AD Napoleon assembles large numbers of fighting dogs in front of his reserves.

—the preceding unsigned comment is by Battlefield (talk • contribs) 10:32, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Not to sound elitist or anything, but I did say reliable sources, didn't I? —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 11:08, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Dogs were and are widely used by the US Military, primarily for security operations, but also for combat. You could check the Vietnam Dog Handler's Association. There's also a lengthy article at the US Army Quartermaster's Museum at [1] on usage in WWII and Korea. That's a .mil site - should be reliable enough. Interestingly, that article mentions that a dog was awarded the Silver Star, which was later revoked as it was thought to be demeaning to servicemen. Toiyabe 23:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Toiyabe, War Dogs changed in WW1 from the large muscular powerful Mastiff breeds to a sleeker faster dog, like the German Sheperd. They performed different tasks completely. Cordially SirIsaacBrock 23:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

You're right, my links didn't have much to do with "dog fighting breeds", I just wanted to counter the claim that "dogs were not extensively used in battle by anyone, ever". I guess yall could still quibble about the meaning of "battle" and "extensively". This is probably not what Simetrical was thinking of by use in battle. Toiyabe 23:34, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I would trust a .mil site for American military practice and those of our enemies. I wouldn't trust it for ancient history, unless the author also happens to have a degree in ancient warfare or the like. It's so easy to passively accept myths. As for the issue of American military practice, I see passages such as "Although experimentation was carried on early in the war for the use of dogs for other purposes, only five types were actually trained and issued to using agencies. These were sentry, sled and pack , messenger, mine detector, and scout dogs." I.e., not actual battle duties.

A work by a serious historian of ancient(/medieval) warfare, rather than a dog-lover, is what constitutes a reliable source when it comes to battle dogs of ancient and medieval times. I doubt the Office of the Quartermaster General is much more expert in ancient military history than a typical person. —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 06:19, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Again, I agree with you that this has nothing to do with ancient history and "dog fighting breeds". Scout dogs perform battle duties - they're used on combat patrols to locate enemies, especially enemy ambushes. The articles I linked to include descriptions of typical battle usage if you care to read them. Of course you could argue that battle usage is only where the dog uses its teeth as a weapon, which is at best rare in modern warfare. I would argue that's an overly narrow definition, many roles that humans perform in battle do not involve the actual discharge of a weapon. Toiyabe 15:34, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, okay, so maybe my wording was imprecise. I meant "used extensively as soldiers/weapons in battle". (Just to quibble, though, locating enemies is a pre-battle activity, not a battle activity.) —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 01:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

ha ha ha, this is a bull.. "50 AD Rome conquers Britain giant fighting dogs are discovered and exported for the Colosseum." First of all, the Romans didn't discovered the giant fighting dogs in Britain, because these dogs had origin from the giant mastiffs of Maesopotamia, well known in Rome ever since the Etruscan period. Second, the Romans introduced any kind of dog inside their arenas, above all mongrels. In the UK they probably utilized the English dogs or local mongrels. In addition, about my knowledge, the most ancient mastiffs, if we consider sculptures and statues of the past, are the war dogs of Sardinia island, being of the 3-2 millennium BCE. Hope this helps. Jack 17:30, 9 September 2006 (UTC)