Talk:History of Canberra

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This page is related to the WikiProject Canberra. This Project is an attempt to fill in, organise, and standardise articles about the city of Canberra, Australia and the Australian Capital Territory
You can discuss the Project at its talk page, or see a list of open tasks here.


Contents

[edit] Nellie Hamilton

Curently commented out: "The last full-blood Aboriginal, Nellie "Queen Nellie" Hamilton, died in Queanbeyan Hospital on January 1, 1897." - "still no source for this".

Sources include:

Gunghalin is named after her with her date of death being given as 1897.

I can't seem to find the authority for 1 January nor that she died in the hospital. I sugggest modifying to 1897.--AYArktos 00:56, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148 - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA Y Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Deletions stand. Please honour my copyright and my wishes. Thank you. AJN

[edit] Naming of Canberra

reference discussion at Talk:Canberra#Origin_of_the_name_Canberra


I disagree that the word derivation to do with women's breasts referring to the plain between Black Mountain and Mt Ainslie is a plausible explanation - as stated in an earlier discussion (can't recall where and can't locate) the anatomy and the topography don't correlate well. I think it is an urban legend which used to have a certain currency. I think it is a put down of the Ngunnawal people and thus we should be very careful about perpetuating this particular myth. I am wary of potical correctness but would like a reason for varying from a policy of political correctness in this case.--User:AYArktos | Talk 23:59, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I just think that things which are popular knowledge should be included even if they are wrong - you should say why its wrong in the article. It gives it as one of the possible names here [1] and [2] Cfitzart 10:22, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Given there are seemingluy authoratiative reference sites that still refer to the assertion I think that your suggested insertion deals with it quite reasonably. I was of course being tongue in cheek about urban legend - it is a legend about a city but doesn't quite fit the commonly accepted usage of the term but perhaps it is not so far out ...--User:AYArktos | Talk 10:40, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
Again, unless we are being unreasonably prudish, I do not see a problem with the "hollow between a woman's breasts" explanation, and cannot see how it is a put down to the Ngunnawal people. As stated before I find it a very "innocent", poetic and beautiful name.

The "hollow between a woman's breasts" meaning for Kembera/Kemberry/Canberry/Nganbra is no more an urban myth than the "meeting place" meaning. Unless you start calling the "meeting place" meaning an urban myth too, I suggest you leave urban myths out and present both as credible alternative explanations that BOTH have supporting evidences.

cheers

Codman 01:42, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Here's a strange explanation I just came across - Canberra is the corrupted form of the word 'Corroborree' meaning a meeting place for a ceremonial dance - [3] -- Cfitzart 00:56, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148 - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA Y Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Murrumbidgee and Molonglo Rivers

The Murrumbidgee River actually flows along the edge of Canberra city rather than through it. The Molonglo certainly flows through Canberra city.

I still have my doubts about "Kamberry" or however you want to spell it being the name for the Molonglo river - nevertheless I have left it in and have just pointed out that this is contradicted by the name "Yeal-am-bid-gie" recorded by Charles Throsby for the Molonglo River in the Canberra plains in 1820. Codman 09:35, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

. revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148 - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA Y Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

As above, please honour my copyright and my wishes. Thank you. AJN.

[edit] History of the ACT

Following discussion at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Canberra, a new article on History of the Australian Capital Territory has been commenced as a fork from this article. We need to disentangle the two articles - any help appreciated. At the moment History of the ACT is a copy and paste. Once disentangled, the forks can then develop and flourish.--A Y Arktos (Talk) 00:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ngambri and Ngunnawal

For attempting to disentangle the two see the ACT Hansard discussion at http://www.hansard.act.gov.au/hansard/2005/week06/2028.htm .

Jon Stanhope in response to a question from Mrs Burke advised:

Ngambri is the name of one of a number of family groups that make up the Ngunnawal nation. Evidence of the existence of this clan is found in the extensive historical records held by various institutions such as the NSW State Archives. A detailed summary of the historical evidence relating to the clan can be found in Ann Jackson-Nakano, The Kamberri: a history from the records of Aboriginal families in the Canberra-Queanbeyan district and surrounds 1820-1927 and historical overview 1928 -2001 Aboriginal History Monograph 8, ANU Press, 2001.

Stanhope went on to say "The Government recognises members of the Ngunnawal nation as descendants of the original inhabitants of this region. There is no specific recognition of the Ngambri group outside of this broader acknowledgement."

I am updating the section on the name based on Ann Jackson-Nakano's latest work on Ngambri ancestral names which in turn cites many sources for her view.--A Y Arktos (Talk) 23:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148  - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA  Y  Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
  • The answer is "yes" - I personally do in fact have tertiary, post-graduate history qualifications - I also intend to maintain my pseudonym and hence my identity remains unverifiable as do therefore my qualifications. Anyone can contribute, including the immediately preceding commentator. Qualifications are not mandated and the wikipedia policy is not to prescribe any barrier to contribution.A Y Arktos 03:03, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I am reserving my right to copyright and deleting my contributions. Please honour my wishes. Thank you.

Note that all contributions to the wikipedia, even those subsequently edited out were under the condition of "You agree to license your contributions under the GFDL." - appears in the footer of every page edited--A Y Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I do not wish to be associated with the articles appearing on this page. Please honour my wishes and the wikipedia policy not to breach copyright - I have withdrawn my contributions. I do not wish to make this a legal issue but will pursue further if you continue to use earlier contributions against my wishes. Thank you. AJN.

[edit] Useful photos?

Some possibly useful photos found on the NLA website. --Martyman-(talk) 12:17, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

I think the article could do with the Aboriginal and European settelment sections being pruned down to a summary and Canberra specific info and a {{main|History of the Australian Capital Territory}} inserted to link the two articles together more effectively. --Martyman-(talk) 10:08, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I had tried to leave some of the more Canberra specific settlement stuff out of the ACT article (Blundells cottage, the Campbell Oaks Estate story, the history of properties in Yarralumla and Woden etc.), there will be overlap between the articles I'm sure, but there is Canberra specific stuff out there. There would be no reason to have two basically identical prehistory sections so a link to the ACT article, which I hope to expand after this week, is probably not a bad idea.--nixie 10:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] USSR Espionage

Parts of Canberra were the backdrop for Cold War espionage activity. One
South Canberra park, Telopea Park, was a known drop-off point for KGB spies
based at the nearby USSR Embassy. This embassy was constantly monitored by
ASIO agents based in a hotel located across the street. In 1991, with the
end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union, the building became
the Russian Embassy.

This is interesting, does anyone have a reference for this? Also I have heard about ASIO or someone getting cought trying to bug the Chinese embassy during it's construction, anyone knwo anything concrete? --Martyman-(talk) 08:14, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Not my prose but accords with the recent exhibition on the Petrov affair (this time last year?) which went into espionage and counter espionage around Canberra. The hotel was of course the Hotel Kingston. I believe that there were accusations about the Chinese embassy building but they would have been hearsay and we should be careful how we report hearsay - definitely citing sources.--A Y Arktos 19:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
I found mention that someone leaked the chinese embassy bugging stuff to the ABC. So there it was probably covreed in the repuatable press. The trouble is whether you should trust the person who leaked it. I don't think anyone in power ever admitted it. --Martyman-(talk) 20:54, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

This March 2004 Age article called " In defence of the top secret life of ASIO" mentions it, stating: "... Downer refused to confirm or deny any Australian involvement or knowledge of the bugging, claiming that any other response "would destroy our intelligence services". The Government's response was the same in 1999 when an alleged joint US-Australia bugging operation was discovered in the Chinese embassy in Canberra.".

This UNSW seminar paper states: "In 1995, for example, Australian intelligence officials leaked a story to the Australian Broadcasting Company that was, at first blush, damaging to themselves: Australian intelligence had bugged the Chinese Embassy in Canberra. However, the Australians had no access to the actual transmissions; they had merely planted the bugs at the behest of the NSA, which was getting the raw feed."

The ABC in an AM Feb 2004 interview mentioned its role, with the interviewer stating :"And in 1995, the ABC revealed Australian intelligence agencies played a similar role, placing bugging devices in the newly constructed Chinese Embassy in Canberra at the behest of the American top secret National Security Agency, or NSA. A leaked memo from the NSA to Britain, about bugging UN ambassadors, was the spark for Clare Short's stunning allegations."

The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation page has no mention.--A Y Arktos 22:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Prohibition image

Enlarge

I uploaded this image to commons. It's a picture of the "First consignment of liquor following the lifting of Prohibition in the Federal Capital Territory". Feel free to incorporate it into this article. --pfctdayelise 13:48, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Comment on European settlement

Comment moved from page at the end of the 'European settlement' section -- Astrokey44|talk 14:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC) :

revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148 - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA Y Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

See above comments. AJN. Do not revert these deletions.

I added a mention that it had been referred to as an invasion, but it was reverted with the comment "revert invasion - is there some satement attributable to local indigenous people - not the org at OPH - that supports this view" - I would say that the above comment by Ann Jackson-Nakano is evidence for this if taken at face value -- Astrokey44|talk 13:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I think the statement is too POV. I do not believe the squatters, storekeepers and other European settlers saw themselves as invaders. It is a term used in hind sight and relatively recently. I also do not believe that in general the indigenous people saw it as an invasion at the time, with the exception of a notable few, eg Yagan. Their treatment of the land and concept of land ownership did not lend itself to such a term. I would want justification for inclusion more than a reference to wikipedian authors' mindset (note the plural). It should also refer to local issues, not Australia-wide debates. I have not read that settlement by Europeans of this area was resisted, but I am happy to be corrected. Ann Jackson-Nakano has written extensively on the subject.--A Y Arktos 22:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
revert deletions of 28 February by IP 03.217.59.148  - showing her deletions as strike throughs insteadA  Y  Arktos 22:28, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

See notes above. Please do not revert my deletions. AJN.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../h/i/s/Talk%7EHistory_of_Canberra_5491.html"