Talk:Hippocrates

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To-do list for Hippocrates: edit · history · watch · refresh
  • Confusing bit from 1911 'bout philosophy.
  • gymnastics -- adams9

Contents

[edit] Expansion

This article is in poor repair. A person hoping to learn about Hippocrates finds little substance here. The "introductory" paragraph, which is longer than the article proper, includes two quotations, neither of which summarizes Hippocrates' medical positions or his importance in history. These quotations should therefore not appear in the introduction. (Given the very shallow treatment found in the rest of the article, they probably should not appear at all.) The astrology comment in particular is misleading as it is presented. Hippocrates is not famous for his interest in astrology, any more than Newton is famous for his fascination with the Bible. (To see a good and proper treatment of how the peripheral interests of a great figure should be treated in an encyclopedia article, see the entry on Newton, particularly the introduction, which does not mention his religious fascination at all, though the subject is treated later in the article proper.) For a point of reference, since there has been some debate about the relevance of astrology to Hippocrates' biography, the Oxford Classical Dictionary has a much longer article on Hippocrates, and it never once mentions astrology.

What is missing here, above all, is the substance a reader most wants when visiting this entry: a thoughtful overview of the medical system attributed to (even if not definitively authored by) Hippocrates. If a thoroughgoing assessment of this humor-, element-, and quality-based system were presented, then mention of astrology would become relevant, since Hippocrates' astrological ideas were related to his medical ideas. If the question is how the Hippocratic "system" should be described, when it cannot be attributed to Hippocrates with certainty, then again I point to the Oxford Classical Dictionary, which presents the Hippocratic "system" by noting how different classical authors conceived of it, sometimes in conflicting ways.

Finally, it should be said that the debate below, about whether "science is a cult," is silly and inappropriate here. My sympathies go to the student below who says that he is writing a paper on Hippocrates and cannot find answers to his questions here. This is a surprisingly poor article. Wikipedia should mark it as a stub. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.0.37.83 (talk • contribs) 15:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Hippocrates needs expansion per top comment on Talk:Hippocrates. Arniep 17:30, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old comments

"The best known of the Hippocratic writings is the Hippocratic Oath."

"Incorrectly credited with the Hippocratic oath."

This seems contradictory. Did he write it or not?

CHz 17:13, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)

He didn't actually write anything, I don't think (it's probably also unknown if he was even a real person). But there are "Hippocratic writings" attributed to him, even though he didn't personally write it. One of his students, or a student of the school associated with him, anyway, was the real author. Adam Bishop 17:16, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)


I'm a med student and recently finished a medical history course that featured Hippocrates. I've read the Hippocratic writings, discussed their merits and flaws, and considered the long term effects he (or his followers) had on medicine. I'll work on this page in the near future because I definately think he's worth knowing about.

[edit] Hippocrates lived !

Mr. Bishop's answer is very good, but a minor correction must be made. None of the 60-70 treatises of Corpus Hippocraticum ("hippocratic wirtings") can truly be ascribed to Hippocrates, but he was certainly a real person, a physician of very great reputation in Athens, at the end of 5th Century BC. We have the testimony of Plato in Protagoras (311b) that he learned medicine for a fee; in Phaedrus (270c-e) Plato gives us a glance in hippocratic thought: "if we are to believe Hippocrates, of the Asclepiad family, we cannot learn even about the body unless we follow this method of procedure" (translated by WHS Jones, 1923).

I am writing a paper on Hippocrates for school, and i need to know if there were any challenges that he faced. But I cannot find any challenges anywhere....help

Please put this on the Reference Desk. There must be other internet resources. When you're done, please insert your findings here for future reference! JFW | T@lk 09:17, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Khios or Cos?

Who is "Hippocrates of Khios" and not "Cos". Is he the same guy?

Likely, uh? JFW | T@lk 17:33, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There are several spellings for the island of Kos. I changed them all to Kos in this article for consistancy.
--cobalt 14:05, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Khios is a different island from Cos --Fs 07:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biographical info

Since Hippocrates does seem to be a real person, some biographical info would be nice. The article as it exists seems to only focus on the writings.

[edit] Photo

What is the photo on the left, and why does it have no caption? --cobalt 14:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I have the same question Brutannica 23:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

O.K., so it's "Asklepion" on the island of Kos. What is that? Oh well, might as well throw up a caption. Brutannica 23:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I asked the same question, chased a few links and discovered that it's likely the "Healing Temple" on Kos where Hippocrates was trained... studerby 00:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pronunciation?

how is his name generally pronounced? HIP o crate' eez? Hi' POC rat eez?

in greek we call it eep-oh-crah-tees. the english pronounciation is probably obvious --Fs 07:13, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] astrology

I removed the mention of astrology from the first paragraph, because it's not significant. Hippocrates is remembered for his contributions to medicine, not his unfortunate dabblings in the common superstitions of his time.

"Unfortunate dabblings" -- this hilarious statement illustrates the arrogance and close-mindedness of modern science...the brainwashing, the whitewashing, the 'us vs. them' mentality. Yes, absolutely, science is a cult. I'm sure they'll be calling modern-day science "that unfortunate dabbling" a few thousand years from now too, so be careful what you bad-mouth from your high and gleaming "rational" ivory-tower. Rationality is a theory and/or philosophy, NOT a fact and not proven scientifically because we can't touch it, quantify it, see it, prod it with a scalpel, etc. Think about that if you lil' brain is open-minded enough to even consider it. --64.12.117.14 09:42, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, it is back. Since Hippocrates (460-359 B.C.) was an astrologer. He used astrological deduction for his medical prognostications. Tried and true. You claim that this practice is "his unfortunate dabblings in the common superstitions of his time" - as evidence that he was weird, right? So, following your line of thought, since he "dabbled" then he should not be taken seriously? You know, rather than refusing to accept historical fact, you enter your own POV then claim there is no evidence, when there is plenty. The problem is with you and your lack of honesty to look outside the box at things that may rattle your sensibilities. Give that a rest, ok? Either deal with it, or find a place where the entire round world can be pushed through the square hole that you want to force it into. Theo
I don't really want to get into the validity of science, as this isn't really the correct place to argue it, however to 64.12.117.14, I don't think scientific methodology is a "cult". It has been tried and tested numerous times and is successful. I really don't think any quotes from Hippocrates can be well-supported "fact". I'll admit, I haven't studied the Life of Hippocrates. Still, the entire Hippocratic Oath may have been written by someone else. And, although Hippocrates was a great medical scientist, who debunked lots of common superstitions, astrology was a more sensible one, as Greeks were not expert Astronomers or cosmologists. I do think we should keep the quote, but lets try to remain civil here and not claim other opinions are not fact. This guy lived a long time ago, historical facts may be shady. Canadianism 02:17, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dates

I think he lived from 460 BC to 377 BC.Nothing else is known about him.

[edit] Legends

Nothing is known about Hippocrates except that he was a physician and lived in Greece.However,there ar many legends bout him.-User:Agoodperson

I 've found a legend about Hippocrates at last.I am going to edit this article.-User:Agoodperson

[edit] GA failed

When compared with the good articles' criteria, the article is :

1. Well written?: Needs a copyedit
2. Factually accurate?: Pass (Not always sticking to facts)
I don't know what you mean here. If you're talking about the biographical info, see the article's peer review. There, editors clamoured for more text, true or not.
3. Broad in coverage?: Pass
4. Neutral point of view?: Fail
Which of the NPOV subcriteria does it fail?
5. Article stability? Fail (last 50 modifications ... big edits)
The article does not change significantly "from day to day". Nothing really major has been done in a week. It is under peer review and eventually to be up for FAC. It is thus being improved, but it is also relatively consistent and reliably stable.
6. Images?: Pass

Additional comments :

  • Only Hippocrates' approximate birth date, birth place and profession are known for certain., how can approximations be known for certain, it doesn't make sense. This is especially true if the next line states that historians have come to accept some idea.
I disagree. Shakespeare is known for certain to have been born near April 23, but the exact date is uncertain.
  • Historians accept that he actually existed, is original research.
I don't see why. Makuria, featured, contains the sentence, "What this merged kingdom should be called is unclear in both contemporary sources and among modern historians."
  • In He may have died in Larissa at the age of 83 or 90, though his death date is speculated with very little certainty; some sources state that he lived to be over 100 years old., why is a source given for 100 yo but not for the two previous years mentioned?
The source is not for 100 yrs old, but for the whole sentence... you'll notice that the source is after the sentence, not within it.
  • Here Hippocrates is often hailed as the first physician to reject superstitious beliefs and practice medicine based only on scientific theory., how can he be hailed if there is no citation given?
You mean, of course, "how does the reader know that for certain"... I shall get a source for this. Fixed.
  • The line Scientific Hippocrates did deny the divine origin of all sickness. needs rephrasing.
Fixed
  • Solving the specify tag of the line These predictions were based ... is necessary.
Will be done. Done!
  • Explanation is needed for Crises occur on critical days, usually a fixed time after the contraction of the disease.
I don't think I can make this any clearer. The critical day is the day on which a crisis occurs. These days usually occur after a fixed period. It's no more complicated than this.
  • Rephrase this line according to this doctrine, the body contains within itself the power get better by rebalancing the four humours.
Done? Is this good enough?
  • There is an Adams mentioned here : Adams goes one step further and calls it sometimes “obscure”. but not before and it is not wikilinked/we don't know who he is.
Fixed.
  • The text is well-written in some sections but other lack in quality. This discrepancy is not ideal especially because the readers will be rebutted to read the whole article.

Even though this article is broad enough and sounds good and is long, it still lacks in copyediting and a few other fields to reach the GA status. For more explanation, please send a message to my talk page. Good luck with the re-working of the article. Lincher 13:12, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I shall cite those two things and copyedit... then I'd like to have it re-evaluated. Thanks for the suggestions! -- Rmrfstar 23:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re-review

I agree more text is necessary for the biographical section. Maybe part of the legends section should be included in the biographical section in order to let the readers know (who come only for a brief understanding of the guy) that much that is said about him is mythical & unreliable.
I have provided a link to the Legends section next to the sentence which notes apocryphal information exists.
OK for stability, OK for NPOV issues.
Maybe if it looked like Historians can only ascertain Hippocrates' approximate birth date, birth place and profession.
That is euphemistic.
You wrote Historians accept that he actually existed and I questioned? You compared it with Makuria, which I totally agree compared to. But I add : are there historians that do not believe that he ever existed and if so who and why? If not, then there is no necessity for this as it is like saying oranges are orange, IMO. Just answer here if you don't feel this should be disputed or has no take in the article's bettering.
Not that I've heard of: it's not disputed, as far as I know.
About Crises occur on critical days, usually a fixed time after the contraction of the disease., is it a concept taken out of his corpus ... if so, giving a citation would solve the understanding. For I, when reading this, am lost as to what are these critical days. Are they days after which disease you will have crises and these number of days differ from one disease to another?
I changed it a little.
Maybe more info about the curing of Democritus. More examples of how he did his medicine like how he took the heart beat, talk about gallbladder stones.
Democritus has been mentioned.
More information about how medecine was done before him and what changed.
Where did he practice medicine?
Everywhere he went... I have mentioned this.
Comparison with Polycletus & Phidias who were also practicing medicine around that time would be useful.
Were the doctors of that time paid?
He was.
Part of the legend : It is said that he would have burnt one of the librairies Kos or Cnidus.
This is in the article.
What about his father & grand father who are said, and that almost could be factual, to have initiated him to medicine for they were doctors.
They have already been mentioned.
Did he leave (that is almost known for sure) Kos? What was the reason of his departure?
These, too.
It is said that he knew about the Eleusinian Mysteries, and that should be mentioned in the text.
He is said to have interveined in the conflict that brought his son to make a declaration involving his forefathers in 413 BC.
More text you can find information on : Bio, Bio.

Anyway, I think the article would probably pass the GA since enough is given to let reviewers know that what was missing was fixed and much can be added to broaden the article but it still has the essentials. Lincher 17:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

I think if anyone should pass it, that person is you. In the meantime, I shall continue to improve it by your suggestions. -- Rmrfstar 17:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA awarded

This little bit of review on the article was refreshing enough to give it more balance, more coverage and a better feel overall. It now meets the requirements of WIAGA. Cheers, Lincher 00:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your work. -- Rmrfstar 01:15, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cultural depictions of Hippocrates

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 18:47, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

No cultural references are being deleted from the article. How would this model be useful under these circumstances? -- Rmrfstar 17:10, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
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