Talk:HIM (band)

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[edit] H.I.M. or HIM

Apparently it is not incorrect to use H.I.M. since their webpage uses it everywhere? (Perhaps some sort of exclusively for US thing that H.I.M.? I haven't seen it written like that in Finland) - User:Ciantic, 02:32, 22. November 2006

[edit] Rewrite Trademark Section

It seems whoever wrote this section doesn't know very much about Trademarks. The Heartagram is a trademark of Oy Heartagram Ltd. in Finland. There are presently two active trademarks. One covering:

CLOTHING, NAMELY, SHIRTS, HOODED SHIRTS, CREW SHIRTS, T-SHIRTS, SWEATPANTS, HOCKEY JERSEYS, SOCCER JERSEYS, SWEATSHIRTS, KNIT SHIRTS, BUTTON-DOWN SHIRTS, BASKETBALL JERSEYS, LONG-SLEEVE T-SHIRTS, TANK TOPS, JACKETS, SWEATERS, BASEBALL JERSEYS, POLO SHIRTS, WIND RESISTANT JACKETS, MUSCLE T-SHIRTS, BABY ROMPERS, TODDLER T-SHIRTS, ALLOVERS, BANDANNAS, MOCK TURTLENECKS, TRACK PANTS, PONCHOS; FOOTWEAR; HEADWEAR

The other covering:

POSTERS, TOUR BOOKS RELATING TO MUSICAL PERFORMANCES, CONCERT PROGRAMS, STICKERS, DECALS, CALENDARS, SCRAPBOOK ALBUMS, AUTOGRAPH BOOKS, ADDRESS BOOKS, APPOINTMENT BOOKS, ART PICTURES, ART PAPERS, PAPER BANNERS, BINDERS, PENCILS, PENCIL CASES, BALL POINT PENS, BOOK COVERS, SONG BOOKS, PAPER NOTEBOOKS, GREETING CARDS, GIFT WRAPPING PAPER, DECORATING PAPERS, PAPER EMBLEMS, PAPER FLAGS, LITHOGRAPHS, MAGAZINES RELATING TO A MUSICAL GROUP, TRADING CARDS, PAPER PLACE MATS, AND PAPER COASTERS

AGNETIC DATA CARRIERS, RECORDING DISCS; SERIES OF PRE-RECORDED AUDIO CASSETTES, COMPACT DISCS, PHONOGRAPH RECORDS, PRE-RECORDED VIDEO CASSETTES AND LASER DISCS, ALL FEATURING MUSIC; MUSICAL SOUND RECORDINGS; SUNGLASSES

IVE MUSICAL PERFORMANCES; FAN CLUB SERVICES AND ENTERTAINMENT SERVICES IN THE NATURE OF PROVIDING INFORMATION RELATING TO LIVE PERFORMANCES AND MUSICAL AND VIDEO RECORDINGS AND LICENSED MERCHANDISE VIA A GLOBAL COMPUTER NETWORK

Unless it's on the list, it's not covered by any sort of trademark. If Bam or anyone else wants to use it they can.

[edit] Links

I'm about to remove almost all of the external links, 99% are either irrelevent or spam. How did the link section get this bad? See WP:EL --Wildnox 00:57, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

You know how it is.. someone attempts it and others follow if nothings done about it. No reason to keep those links, IMHO. — Moe Epsilon 04:08 September 12 '06

Your right we did let it get distraous. thanks. lets try and keep it relevent this go aroundRazor romance 13:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Razor Romance, the reason I archived the page was to prevent non-relevant conversation about the subject of the article from starting. Feel free to start a new section and discuss about how to help the article. Try not to type in all CAPS anymore either. — Moe Epsilon 14:45 September 12 '06

you know i did that this morning but someone must find the topic of genre unimportant as it was deleated TWICE now. it is still relevent to some of us as in a post that was added had a possible article change and i hopeded to recive some feedback before i went ahead and change it. and i understand why you did it but i did that this morning(created a new section) and pasted it this morning from the archive file and i come back 5 hrs later and someone has deleted my new section post. to say the least i am throughly disgusted by whove did that as that would have been in some peoples opponion a very drastic change and required member feedback. thank you to whover deleated my section.Razor romance 18:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Once it's in the archive, it should stay there. Some of the comments made in the re-post was unproductive and should have not been made at all. Like I said above, if you want to start a new section regarding a topic, please do so. — Moe Epsilon 21:23 September 12 '06

[edit] Genre

I hate to bring this up again, but...I got rid of "Heavy Metal" and gave my reasoning in the discussion, but it was added again with no reply. So I got rid of it and am posting my reasoning again. If someone wants to add it, please respond to this:

The only place where HIM would be called "heavy metal" is in the stupid and restrictive genre field on some CD ripping programs. NOBODY uses the term "heavy metal" anymore, especially not professional critics. It's either a term that old people use to refer to all loud rock music, or in a more specific context, a euphemism for hair metal like Poison, Cinderella, etc. Either way, absolutely nothing to do with this band. It makes about as much sense as calling them thrash metal. I'm gonna change it to hard rock, and please don't change it back unless you find an example of a critic calling them (or for that matter, any critic within the last decade calling ANYTHING) "heavy metal". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.116.27.11 (talk • contribs).

As far as critics calling anything in the last decade "Heavy Metal", if you read outside of the watered down music magazines for children, the term is used quite often. Other than that I have no oppostion to you removing the term here, as it was uncited. Also, remember to sign your comments. --Wildnox 16:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
See the edit history the user who readded replied in his edit summary. --Wildnox 16:39, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
I have reverted the removal of the Heavy metal genre. Considering the genre controversy section states that Ville Valo has stated that the band started as a "Black Sabbath tribute band of sorts", which further solidifies the band's heavy metal leanings, I am thinking that adding Heavy metal as a genre is not entirely unreasonable. Besides, the name of this section is "genre controversy", hence it's not always going to meet the same perspective of every editor. Heavy metal was used through the last decade and is still used today. Whether or not you agree with that, 69.116.27.11, is your opinion. — Moe Epsilon 21:20 September 12 '06

It's not 'my opinion' that "Heavy Metal" is either used loosely as an all-encompassing term or to refer to 80's hair metal. If you look at other band articles on Wikipedia, the only ones labeled 'heavy metal' are those described above, or the bands that have such a generic sound that putting them into a category is hard (which seems to be the case with HIM). However, in this case, it is merely a cop-out, not an alternative to more specific genre definitions. Basically, what I'm saying is that if we already have specific suggestions such as "Gothic Rock" and "Alternative Metal", there is no point in listing Heavy Metal alongside them as if it were an alternative, because it's not - it's a broad genre whereas the others are specific subgenres. For heaven's sake, has anyone even looked at the Heavy Metal article?

"As a result, "heavy metal" now has two distinct meanings: either the genre and all of its subgenres, or the original heavy metal bands of the 1970s style sometimes dubbed "traditional metal", as exemplified by Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath."

You can see from the first definition that it is a broad genre of which all the other forms of metal are subgenres. So putting it there makes about as much sense as putting "Rock". As for the second definition, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that it falls into that category. The only thing you'd have to go on is that Black Sabbath quote, but I don't know if Valo merely naming them as influences qualifies as a reason for lumping them into the same genre. --Alex


The term "heavy metal is regulary used when talking about their debutalbum - Greatest Lovesongs vol 666. Some people would even go as far as calling it a contemporary art/heavy metal album. And I do agree. GLSV666 is definitely contemporary, it's definitely art, and definitely HEAVY METAL. The latter albums are nowhere near heavy metal ('cept for maybe the Love Metal album), but the first album is a heavy metal album. Consequently I believe "heavy metal" is a correct term to use when talking about early HIM. -Gothic Embrace 24/10 12:53 (GMT +1)

The band take elements from traditional heavy metal music and 1980s gothic rock blending them together. Most children in recent years seem to associate the word "heavy metal" with extreme metal, when it is a very distant style.
In their music, a band like HIM have far more in common with the original, and genuine sound that heavy metal bands developed in the early 1970s than a band like Cannibal Corpse for example, ever have. Angsty teenagers try to revise the meaning of genres that they have no idea about because it happened years before they were born.
Are HIM related to extreme metal? No. Do HIM share musical characteristics with actual heavy metal itself? Yes. When taking into consideration that they started as a Sabbath tribute act, this should be blatantly obvious. Band members also cite Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin as influences.[1]The Blue Öyster Cult cover is also another MAJOR HINT, that seems to go over the head of most people who don't have a clue about music history. - Deathrocker 03:42, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Taking influence from Heavy Metal bands doesn't necessarily make a band metal. --Inhumer 19:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

yeah but you cant take hints as a reason to add it to wikipediaas stated fact without saying it is implied razor romance

The term "Genre controversy" should be removed, there is no proof of a genuine controversy in any printed and factual article. Thus it fails the WP:V policy. A "couple of 15 year old Slayer fans" whining on a messagboard hardly consists of a "controversy" worthy of a mention in a an encyclopediac article. - Deathrocker 09:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Maybe changing it to "Genre Debate" would be better.Inhumer 21:20, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heavy Metal

Although I agree that Heavy Metal should not be used to describe HIM in any way, shape, or form... Heavy Metal is a solid metal genre, that of bands such as Manowar.

yea...well...if you want to be technal. Its love metal not heavy metal, Villie Valo and the other band members made their own genere for the band. But instead of love metal the music society has placed them under Gothic Rock. along w.advenged sevenfold. They are placed under that genere in many sites includeing myspace, yahoo, and other sites.

A band can't make up its own genre. Love Metal is simply just a maketing term. --Inhumer 19:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] discogrophy question

I went on the offical HIM site and they said absoutley nothing about the supposed new album "uneasy listening vol.1". whoever put it on i would like to see the link they found the info orwe need to take it off.Razor romance 13:05, 21 September 2006 (UTC) no chance


Hey. I've searched the web for about a week now, going to every website I could find that talks about cd's and HIM, and found nothing about an "Uneasy Listening vol. 1". Could someone maybe give a link to where they found it?The Bickel 04:01, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


Added back "Uneasy Listening Vol. 1" It is being released at the end of this month and can be seen http://www.recordstore.co.uk/him/ . Solitaryman666

[edit] lyrics

I was thinking that mabey we could link all the singles to a sub page that had the lyrics on them. i would have done it but the instructions to do it are confusing. if ne one could help me with that can you go to my user page and tell me how to do that i would be most apperactive of you! or does that voilate the coppywight? thanksRazor romance 13:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted all addings of lyrics. It's against copyright laws to post lyrics here. Link them as an external link at the bottom of an article if you must. — Moe Epsilon 21:33 September 29 '06

THE LYRICS ARE AWESOME AND BEAUTIFUL!

[edit] vallo page

we have more info on the vallo page that is irrelevent to his page and important to the him page. help me orginize the info i put on it from his page plzRazor romance 18:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

never mind we allready have the info on there just dident look hard enough. sorry. Razor romance 18:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

we neesd to have info for all the members of the band so lets finde some and get it cracking.Razor romance 18:04, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

HE IS A BEAUTIFUL MAN. :]

[edit] Merge

Somebody proposed merging heartagram into HIM (band).

  • Support I agree with the merge. Heartagram is unlikely to grow outside of its current scope as a symbol of HIM, therefore the article is unlikey to grow, and since it is easily encapculated within a paragraph or two, we should merge it into HIM. Copysan 01:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Support per above --Wildnox 01:53, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Support Unlikely to mean more than the HIM and Bam Margera logo, so merge it here and mention it on Bam Margera if it's not already. — Moe 21:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

supportgood idea Razor romance 12:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Support thats a good idea. --Denzil 23:27, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
Merge complete Copysan 10:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gas page

okay we need lots more info for gas. can any one help me with that cauz right now this page sux anus. Razor romance 12:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

what the hell is going on? i have created a new page for gas 3 times with LIMITED info because i could not find much history on gas and it stated that on the discussion page IF PEOPLE WOULD ONLY LOOK TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE HAVE SAID THEN WE WOULD NOT HAVE THIS PROBLEM!!!!! I know that the page sucked but i said on the gas page we need more info! i even said it on this page to try to get some more people to help me. there is no repeat NO excuse for this crap.Razor romance 12:24, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

ts been almost 7 days and still no response as to why my crap has been destoryed?thats messed up.Razor romance 14:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

See the deletion log for why the page was deleted. --Wildnox 04:29, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ideas

hello. i was checking out some outher pages and i liked the green daypage a lot and so i got to thinking what if we made our page a little more like they did? check it out and you will see what im saying. just to try to get a little more visual intrest we could add more pictures and totaly revamp the page. what do you all th9ink about the possibality of a major edit like that?Razor romance 14:22, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

If yew can provide sources for the information yew want to add, then using the Green Day article has a guide isnt a major problem.