Talk:Hezbollah rocket force

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Related task forces... Weaponry task force

"The Israeli corvette INS Hanit before it suffered severe damage by Hezbollah anti-ship missile on July 14, 2006." Shouldn't it be "after", seeing the black hole near the water?

No, the 'black hole' near the waterline is I understand an exhaust stain. The wiki article on the Hanit suggests that you'll see similar markings on other warships of this class. A close look at the photo tends to support the exhaust stain viewpoint. I'd also note that the photo is 'too perfect' to be anything other than a 'portrait'. A photo of the real damage would likely not be taken from a particularly advantageous position.

[edit] Drone or missile attack

Hezbollah initially claimed (and apparently still maintains) that the Israeli ship was hit on 14 July by a drone (unmanned aerial vehicle) carrying explosives. The claim that the ship was hit by a missile came from the Israeli's on July 15 and was reported by the Guardian as follows: "The attack late Friday alarmed Israel because initial information indicated the guerrillas had used a drone for the first time to attack Israeli forces. But the army's investigation showed that Hezbollah had fired an Iranian-made missile at the vessel from the shores of Lebanon, said Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan. ``We can confirm that it was hit by an Iranian-made missile launched by Hezbollah. We see this as very profound fingerprint of Iranian involvement in Hezbollah, Nehushtan said in an interview with The Associated Press." Brig. Gen. Ido Nehushtan went on to describe a second missile striking a nearby merchant ship.

The device that struck the Israeli ship was subsequently identified by the Israeli's as being a C-802 anti-ship missile. Although this is of Chinese manufacture, it is understood that Iran (amongst others) have stocks of this missile. This missile carries approximately 165 kilos of explosive. The wiki article on this missile suggests that it is normally programmed to strike the target near the waterline, and penetrate the hull before exploding, in order to inflict maximum damage. The Israeli's have said that the ship's anti-missile defences were not switched on, suggesting that they believed that the ship would normally have had adequate defences against this type of missile.

There has (apparently) been no suggestion that the ship's command were negligent in failing to activate the ship's anti-missile defences, or any explanation why they were not activated. The inference is that no such attack was 'contemplated'. My understanding is that the normal experience of the US/British/Australian navies would be that a ship engaged in 'hostilities' would be on full alert with all defences activated (anti-missile/anti-aircraft/anti-mine), and that any failure to to maintain full alert would trigger an inquiry into the command of the ship. On the other hand, it was not apparent whether the Israeli ship was actively 'engaged' at the time of the attack. Even so, a ship does not have to be engaged in actually firing to be on alert. Usually simply 'presence in the battle zone' is sufficient cause to maintain active defensive surveillance and reaction capability.

According to Wiki, Hezbollah's weapons include the C-802 anti-ship missile, but also an Iranian drone or UAV called the Mohajer-4. A report today on TimesOnline reports on an Israeli claim to have shot down a Hezbollah drone. No date is given for the shooting down, but the inference is that it was 'recent'. The full text of the report follows:

"The Israeli air force shot down a Hezbollah drone for the first time, sending its wreckage plunging into the sea, the army said. Israeli media said the unmanned aircraft had the capacity to carry 90lbs of explosives, nearly as much as the more powerful rockets Hezbollah has been firing into Israel for the last 27 days. Unlike the rockets, however, the drone has a guidance system to for accurate targeting."

This latest report regarding a Hezbollah drone, particularly the news that it was shot down over the sea (and that it could carry 90kg of explosive) suggests the possibility that the Israeli's may have chosen to describe the first attack as a missile attack, whereas it may have actually been a drone attack as Hezbollah have claimed all along. This is not to suggest that Israel distorted the truth in order to attribute the attack to Iranian armament because the drones that Hezbollah have are also Iranian-sourced. The point about Iranian involvement could have been equally well made with either device, even down to the suggestion about the potential involvement of Iranian advisors at the launch site.

The significance might in fact be in that Israel did not want the public to know that something no more sophisticated (in the public's mind) than a remote control 'toy' aircraft inflicted considerable damage on an Israeli warship, and particularly that something so 'unsophisticated' had penetrated the ship's defences. Now that the Israeli's claim to have shot one down, and presumably have alerted their ships to the threat and taken measures to defeat incoming drones, they may feel more comfortable feeding their own public news of any further attempted attacks using drones. There may still, however, be a tendency to continue to attribute any successful attacks to missiles, as missiles will always (in the public's mind) be a 'less avoidable' threat than drones. The Israeli's might also be concerned at the reaction of the public to the concept of a drone that can be targeted, as opposed to the current fairly random rocket threat.

Further work on 'getting to the bottom of this' might proceed along the lines of getting further information on the nature of the damage to the Israeli warship - if it was superstructure then a drone might be more likely. The issue of the second ship that was 'hit' might need looking into as well. There seems to be a peculiar lack of information about that incident (but that's not unusual when events onshore tend to swamp the news feeds). I'll do some digging. If anyone else is interested they're welcome to pick up a shovel. Cheers, Tban 11:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The alleged Hezbbolah fightr shown in civilain dress

First of all the website from which it has been taken is not neutral secondly couple of days ago i saw this picture with the description "palestenian fighters with anti-aircaft guns" I dont have the link to verify it right now but I will try my best to find one soon. Thanks

[edit] Rockets' table

This table is not supported by the reference given. Most references I saw only mention the 122mm Katyushas, the Fajr-3, Fajr-5 and Zelzal-2. I think that unless better references are found only these rockets should be included in the table. Incidentally it may be useful to include a column with the estimated number of rockets. Dianelos 22:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

This study reports 122mm Katyushas with a 30kg warhead and 30-50km range. What do you make of this?

No 220mm Katyushas or 333mm Fajr-5 rockets are mentioned; instead 220mm Ouragan (?) rockets and a 302 mm rocket based on the Chinese WS-1 with 175 kg warhead. Dianelos 23:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

9P140 Uragan is the BM-27, a large Katyusha launcher, although Hezbollah's 220mm rockets probably aren't launched from that exact vehicle. Katyusha isn't the name of a model, just a general class—it may refer to any truck-mounted MRLs or just to Soviet/Russian-made ones. The term is commonly used by the news media, but it's probably better to refer to rocket calibre or specific model of launcher when possible, to prevent this kind of confusion. —Michael Z. 2006-09-10 14:04 Z

By the way, BM-21 and BM-27 are the names of Soviet/Russian launchers, not of the rocket ammunition. —Michael Z. 2006-09-10 14:25 Z