Talk:Herxheimer reaction

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[edit] Accuracy

This seems to be an alternative medicine take/relabling another illness. My understanding is that the Jarisch–Herxheimer reaction (presumably the same thing) is more the result of antibiotic treatment (see this for example). Thoughts or clarifications? --Hansnesse 07:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

That could be right. I've only heard it in reference to alternative medicine, which is why I added it. If you have a medical definition, feel free to put it first, as that's far more relevant. Even so, I think the alternative medicine definition should stay too, even if improper, to explain how it might be being wrongly used and to resolve confusion. Tyciol 20:12, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Someone should elaborate on this later, but the Jarisch–Herxheimer reaction can be the result of an antibiotic treatment OR the result of a massive die-off of organisms in the body. The reaction is causitive. The antibiotic treatment obviously has the intention of killing parasites and other organisms, so the end result is the same. The linked article above is lacking in detail. A Jarisch–Herxheimer (herx) reaction may take place long after the beginning of antibiotic treatment, especially in lyme disease patients treated with ceftriaxone, where it may present up to 28 days after onset of treatment, due to the way ceftriaxone is thought to eliminate borrelia burgdorferi - not by killing it directly, but inhibiting the reproduction (and subsequent dying of the failed parents).

There is also growing evidence that massive quantities of IV sodium ascorbate (IV vitamin C) may cause the same sort of reaction, likely caused by the body's inability to process the large amount of dead and dying parasites in the blood. Someone please add the NIH and PNAS links to sodium abscorbate and cancer, I don't have the information with me, and this section is severely lacking. -70.179.75.137

I'd add them, but I'm not very familiar with either site at the moment... Tyciol 05:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Though it falls under the catagory as "alternative medicine" maybe a link to reflexology should be added? From a personal account, after performing a full reflexology on myself, I felt worse the next day. My skin was bright yellow and my urine was dark yellow (and HURT!). After about a day it cleared up and I felt better then ever. From my understanding, it was due to newly released toxins being release faster than they could be expelled. Seems like the current theme of this artical.

[edit] Comment from article

The following comment was added to the article

This entire article is wrong! This is absolutely not the Herxheimer reaction. The Herxheimer reaction is an immunological response to breakdown of spirochete bacteria. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.218.32.161 (talk • contribs) .

I have changed the {{npov}} tag to {{totallydisuted}} and moved the comment here for futher discussion. Thoughts? --TeaDrinker 20:56, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I added a few references for spirochete infection. You hear about people talking about candida/yeast and the herxheimer, and maybe it's possible, but there's nothing in medline to support it. I'm not sure about the toxin stuff because my understanding is that the Herxheimer may result from the immune system's response to toxins released from the dying spirochetes. Not sure about this though. 75.27.149.92 20:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

It is my understanding that Herxheimer reactions involved a pathogen by definition. Therefore, I have removed references to detox diets. Headwes 22:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)