Talk:Henry VIII of England

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[edit] Headline text

I think we owe it to the world to have the doggerel with names at the head of the 'marriages' paragraph.

divorced, beheaded, died; divorced, beheaded, survived.

Catherine, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour; Ann of Cleves, Catherine Howard, Catherine Parr. Henry asked to be buried next to Jane Seymour because she gave him a son!

See what a service this would be! --MichaelTinkler

Catherine Parr I believe is the one missing -- SimonP

Close, but I think she was the Katherine with a K

I'm partial to the fuller version:

King Henry the Eighth, to six wives he was wedded: One died, one survived, two divorced, two beheaded.

Although I've alway found it a bit confusing, because Anne of Cleves survived him, too, and even survived C/Katherine Parr, the one who "survived" him by about a year.

Did you realize there was one year (1536) in which he had three wives? Catherine of Aragon died, so the coast was finally clear for him to ditch Anne Boleyn, and he married Jane Seymour immediately.

isis

Can somebody please fix that bottom table so it isn't so wide? -- Zoe

I think it's fixed now. -- Notheruser 04:03 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

Actually it was Katherine Howard and Catherine Parr.

I love the doggerel but like so much about Henry VIII, it isn't quite accurate.

The myths:

Henry left the Catholic Church and was England's first protestant monarch. Wrong: Henry left ROMAN Catholicism but still saw himself as an english Catholic, whose had a funeral Mass, etc. His son, Edward VI went the final step, breaking with Catholicism completely and becoming the first protestant monarch.
Henry divorced some of his wives. Wrong: What Henry got was an annulment, ie a declaration that there was not,, and never had been, any valid marriage. A divorce is the termination of a valid marriage. Henry's marriages were ruled non-marriages, automatically making his children by them illegitimate (though as king he could and did regularly change their status to legitimate!)
Henry was divorced (or rather had annulments) from two of his wives. Wrong: He was divorced/annulled from FOUR of his wives, Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Anne of Cleves and Katherine Howard. In the case of Boleyn and Howard, the annulment came only hours before their execution. Of course, no-one bothered to point out that if the marriages never existed, then Boleyn and Howard couldn't have committed adultery (the reason for their executions) as neither had been married to the King ever and so could sleep with whomever they chose. In reality, Henry executed two of his non-wives for not committing adultery against their non-existent husband. Oh dear!

Who says history isn't fun sometimes! STÓD/ÉÍRE

But why are we using the mnemonics in the first place if they're wrong?? --Susurrus 00:02, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Did Henry write "Greensleeves"?

After some headscratching, I figured out that 3C1R meant third cousin once removed, but even though I am a fine south Georgia boy with a well-documented family, I be danged if that table really says much to me. 7th cousin! Anybody reading this might be my seventh cousin. All those dukes and earls and nabobs are related anyway, aren't they? Were these cousinships politically significant? The only cousins mentioned in the article are Catherine Howard and Anne Boleyn. The matrix needs some explanation. Ortolan88 05:03 Mar 14, 2003 (UTC)

It appears that Henry did indeed write Greensleeves. He was a genuinely multi-talented man - intellectually brilliant, a very good composer, writer, poet.

Someone who knows more than I do should add "Greensleeves" and other talents to the article, not to mention a bit of help on the matrix. Ortolan88

"Coronated"? I've heard of carbonated, so by analogy this must mean having a crown forced in under pressure. PML.

NOT AGAIN! Who the hell keeps putting this word into articles? I've removed it I don't know how many times and it still keeps re-apprearing. Well spotted, PML. I thought I'd got all of this silly word! STÓD/ÉÍRE 00:19 Apr 14, 2003 (UTC)

I removed the over-lengthy and difficult to follow table. It really seems out of place in this article. Maybe it could be put into another article appropriately titled if anyone cares enough. Here's the removed text. Daniel Quinlan 08:06, Dec 14, 2003 (UTC)

The Henry VIII and his wives' relationship matrix:

relationships	Henry VIII	Catherine of Aragon	Anne Boleyn	Jane Seymour	Anne of Cleves	Katherine Howard	Catherine Parr
Henry VIII	self	half 3C1R	5C1R	5C	5C	5C1R	3C1R
Catherine of Aragon	half 3C1R	self	6C1R	4C3R	5C1R	6C1R	half 3C2R
Anne Boleyn	5C1R	6C1R	self	half 2C	8C1R	1C	4C1R
Jane Seymour	5C	4C3R	half 2C	self	7C1R	half 2C	5C1R
Anne of Cleves	5C	5C1R	8C1R	7C1R	self	8C1R	7C
Katherine Howard	5C1R	6C1R	1C	half 2C	8C1R	self	6C
Catherine Parr	3C1R	half 3C2R	4C1R	5C1R	7C	6C	self

Key: C = cousin; R = removed;

Example: 2C1R = 2nd cousin once removed (See "Cousin" on Wikipedia page Family for further explanation)

Update: this explanatory info is now at Cousin chart -- Curps 21:57, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] divorce from Catherine

Henry couldn't divorce Catherine, because he was catholic, so he created his own church. Under the new Church of England he divorced her.

[edit] Syphilis?

Not Again!!! From the article: "The legend that Henry suffered from syphilis is incorrect, since none of the children suffered from any symptoms of the disease, nor did any of his wives." But the article on Edward VI states that he suffered from syphilis, passed on by his father. Which is correct? --Glengarry 05:05, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Neither. Syphilis is a guess, nothing more. It's not "incorrect," as it's not disproven, nor can it be said with certainty that both Henry VIII and Edward VI suffered from it (and it's certainly incorrect to say a son "catches" syphilis from his father, unless they have a rather peculiar relations: congenital syphilis is acquired from one's mother, who may or may not have acquired syphilis from one's father.) -Nunh-huh 05:26, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

A book I read recently (--will try to track it down and list as source) noted that the syphilis story emerged about a hundred years after Henry's death. Made that notation in the article. The story was not current during his life or the lives of his children. This book countered syphilis as a cause of death by asserting that the recorded symptoms during Henry's last years suggest congestive heart failure, secondary to adult onset diabetes. WBardwin 00:24, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Henry VIII's ailments, remedies, and prescriptions were all well documented at the time. There are plenty of notes from doctors, gentlemen of the privy chamber, and others going into minute detail on his health. Yet Maria Perry points out in her book The Sisters of Henry VIII, that none of those contemporary notes give any indication of syphilis. He did not take any of the medications used for that disease. Perry's suggestion for anyone who still buys that myth is to compare Henry's medical history to that of his rival Francis I. There's where you'll find everything you ever wanted to know about 16th Century treatment of syphilis.

[edit] Length of Article:

The succession section is lengthy and could probably be condensed into a strong paragraph, with links to Henry's children. This would give a little more room for persons and details relating to Henry's reign, like Sir Thomas More. WBardwin 00:58, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Illegitimate issue

Reverted the deletion of the list of illegitimate issue by Lord Emsworth. At least until he explains what the reason they "do not relate to Henry" is.

1)Henry Fitzroy, 1st Duke of Richmond and Somerset was recognised by Henry himself and the article about him reports Fitzroy was regarded as a possible heir for the throne before his untimely death.

2)Both Careys have been suggested as his children. The list marks them as "alleged illegitimates" and names their other candidate father. Not inconsistent with other cases of disputed identity of the father such as Nero Claudius Drusus. So if the Careys were Henry's Children than that would make them both first cousins and half siblings to Elizabeth I

3)Thomas Stuckley, John Perrott and Etheldreda Malte have all been reputed to be his illegitimate children and are marked as such. The other candidate father for Etheldreda is already listed.

Again I do not see a violation of NPOV by mentioning their names and what is known about them.

The addition of potential links to their names is actualy rather standard. This allows for articles to be created, provided that someone is actually up to the job, but does not necessarily dictate that they should.

Lord Emsworth, could you list your objections in the discussion page rather than your edit summary? That way they would be more clear. User: Dimadick

The "Issue" table was meant by me to include only legitimate issue, as can be seen on all other British monarch pages that have it. The notes, moreover are meant to be brief, listing if the individual married and had issue (the table is meant to be a genalogical aid relating to royal succession, etc.). The table need not include an excessive amount of biographical detail, such as the posts in which the individual served, etc.: this information is better reserved for the articles themselves. The illegitimate children do not in any way cloud the issue of royal succession, or otherwise relate to Henry; it is unnecessary for the article on Henry to encompass their biographies, as it in effect does with such a table. As to the links, I will not object to their inclusion. -- Emsworth 16:07, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The listing of "Issue" might leed to the assumption of completeness. I thought about retitling the subsection to "Legitimate Issue" and creating a different subsection for the illegitimates but I thought it would look rather ridiculous.

Most English Monarchs do not have particularly well-known issue. With the possible exception of Charles II of England whose article already mentions the most notable of his fourteen recognised illegitimates. However the illegitimates attributed to Henry had careers of their own:

1)The details on Henry Carey are already on his own article. I tried to flesh it out sometime ago as it mostly consisted of the current subsection about Hunsdon House.

2)Catherine Carey was reportedly a female favorite to Elizabeth I and has had some notable descedants. Including among others daughter Lettice Knollys, grandson Robert Devereux, 2nd Earl of Essex and fifth generation descedant Charles Spencer, 3rd Earl of Sunderland.

3)Thomas Stuckley has quite a reputation of his own. See for example:

4)John Perrott was a rather notable political figure, For details on his administration in Ireland see the following text by Thomas D'Arcy McGee: A Popular History of Ireland, Book 8

5)Etheldreda had no known descedants. But her inheritance seems to have turned the Harringtons to a particularly wealthy family. Though they are probably better known for Sir John Harrington being a founder of the Virginia Company. He is for example mentioned twenty-first in the "Third Virginia Charter" of 1612. See: http://www.fightthebias.com/Resources/Hist_Docs/third_virginia_charter.htm

"Inappropriate to list alleged illegitimate children"

Their parentage is disputed but not completely rejected (though this is probably for lack of evidence either way). Mentioning the alternative father should leave enough doubt for the claim rather than propagating or rejecting it. By the way the 1911 Brittanica lists Thomas Stuckley as a son of Sir Hugh Stucley of Affeton who was married to Jane Pollard rather than Mary Berkeley. See: Sir Hugh Stucley Of Affeton Kt

John Perrott has also been attributed to the otherwise unknown Sir Thomas Perrott of Istington and Haroldston, husband of Mary Berkeley.

"The notes are meant to be brief, listing the individual's marriage and stating if he or she had issue. They are not supposed to include an excessive amount of biographical details."

Which is understandable in the cases of Mary I, Elizabeth I, Edward VI who already have extensive articles to themselves and are generaly known. But I would argue that the rest would need some introduction.

The external links are only appropriate as sources for the list. I will see what I can do in listing the author, date, title. By the way, why is the text by Garry Stevens listed as being from 2004? The page itself claims to have no updates or modidications since July, 2003.

User: Dimadick

The text of your original reply was modified while I was preparing my response.

"The illegitimate children do not in any way cloud the issue of royal succession, or otherwise relate to Henry".

They clearly relate to him as possible issue and further portray a King who had several mistresses in addition to his famous six wives. Thus provide background information.

The illegitimates naturaly do not affect succession. William the Bastard was a very rare case of a bastard succeeding his father to a throne. But I do not see why a geneological table must necessarrily reflect issues of succession only. Not every descedant of a Monarch is eligible for a throne at any point but this is not a reason for them to be dismissed. We list for examples the children of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by Sophie Chotek though neither of the three ever had right to the Austrian throne. User: Dimadick

Having considered your reply, I will not object to the inclusion of the illegitimate children. But I request that the notes section be made brief, listing only: 1. that the child is illegitimate (or allegedly illegitimate) 2. if the child married, whom he or she married, and if he or she did or did not have further issue. Further details should be contained in the article on the individual in question itself. (If necessary, I will create articles for these people). I hope that this proposal will be acceptable. -- Emsworth 22:22, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Henry, Prince of Wales

I noted that his first son is listed as Henry, Prince of Wales. Having died before completing two months are you certain Henry wasn't only a Duke of Cornwall? User: Dimadick

He does not seem to be listed on Prince of Wales, so I presume you are correct. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Emsworth 22:52, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

True but there have been Princes Of Wales who were created less than 2 months after they became heir apparent (like Richard II). Maybe the person who edited the Prince of Wales article forgot to put him in.

[edit] Culpeper and Dereham's execution date

This is given as 1 December 1541. This suggests we may be a few dates out. Could someone familiar with this part of history check this, and check the Culpeper and Dereham articles? Cheers, jguk 21:37, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Gregorian calendar versus Julian calendar? (There is no consistency between the Google results either - they agree on December 1541, but give the date at the 8th, 1st, 10th, 18th...) -- ALoan (Talk) 13:39, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Gregorian calendar started being used from 1582 onwards. The dates of the executions should be in the Julian calendar. User:Dimadick

Yes, but the Gregorian Calendar wasn't introduced into Britain until the mid-18th century (presumably because it was seen as another Papist Plot). (Hence, among other reasons, the Battle of the Boyne, which took place on Ist July, 1690 is commemorated on "our glorious twalfth.")--PeadarMaguidhir 19:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

About the execution dates... My source says 10 december 1541(antonia Fraser: The six wives of Henry

VIII, 1992)  6 Aug, 2006 (Kurt)

[edit] Arms

Was Henry the first to use the lion supporter for his arms? Astrotrain 22:33, Mar 3, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thomas More

Surely Sir Thomas More should be mentioned?

The mention of Sir Thomas More makes a mockery of the process the Catholic Church uses in determining sainthood. If no one else wants to revise the language, I'll take a stab at it anon. Current text: "In order to reward his support, the Roman Catholic Church later made him a saint."

[edit] Anglican Communion

The reference to the Anglican Communion contravenes Wikipedia guidelines on historicity. It does not come into existence until the 19th Century. The reference is erroneous anyway, it is not headed by the English monarch, but by the Archbishop of Canterbury. MnJWalker 00:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes (and Anglican Communion) should be deleted. --ClemMcGann 16:22, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What lanquage did HenryVIII speak? German?

I have recently read that all the monarchs of England since 1066 spoke German? I found that very interesting, if it is in fact true. Until George VI that is...

Not true, I'm afraid. All monarchs until the end of the 18th century would have been able to speak French and Latin. Edward (Henry's son) was taught French, Italian, Spanish, Latin, and Greek. But I know of no sources suggesting that either he or his father spoke German -which in any case didn't really exist as a single language at the time. Hackloon 00:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

In terms of first language, all the kings from 1066-1377 (possibly a bit later) would have had French as their first language. From 1377 to 1689, English. William III's first language was Dutch. Anne spoke English. The first two Hanoverians spoke German. English monarchs since George III have all spoken English as their first language. john k 03:28, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Henry VIII composed songs with French lyrics : http://www.csupomona.edu/%7Ejcclark/emusic/renaissa.html#t --Teofilo talk 15:30, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Considering both the political circumstances and the relative evolution of European languages at the time-it is not inconceivable that Henry VIII may indeed have had a smattering of "German" in his language repetoire. The German in this case being 'Diets'(Middle Dutch or Middelnederlands) the collective name for mutually understandable germanic dialects that would eventualy evolve into modern German and Dutch, English could also have been classed at an earlier point as 'Diets'. This earlier version of Deutsch/Dutch was widely spoken in many parts of the continent and was arguably the most important language for trade at the time (Antwerp,Brugge,Hanse).It is quite probable that many English regional dialects of the period would bear more resemblance to their germanic cousins than would be apparent today. Given the amount of trade with the Low Countries and their significance to the geo-politic of his time, might Henry have perceived the benefits of learning Diets?--Tamurello 13:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

It's an interesting suggestion, but unlikely I think. All correspondance at the level of ambassadors and monarchs was carried out in Latin. Moreover, Diets did not have any level of cultural prestige which would have rendered it a "princely" priority. There's a very good article by David Cressy on (among other things) the education of Henry called "Royal Tutors in the Reign of Henry VII" (will look up exact reference later). Hackloon 23:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Some fool has been tapering with page and all i can get at the moment is some juvenille scrawl.

[edit] PLEASE REVERT DATES

Could someone please revert the dates ....

[edit] Removing refs

Erm, isn't this a dodgy thing to do? The book on Henry's navy certainly looks specialised, but if it was used to write the article, it should be referenced. References is not Further reading, after all. JackyR 22:15, 28 February 2006

You're right, and I ordinarily would *not* remove a reference -- but why this (newly published) book, which was apparently used in writing two sentences in a single paragraph, when there are no similarly specialized sources listed for any of the other non-general topics in the article? Please feel free to put it back if you think it really ought to be there. I maintain a very lengthy bibliography in the areas of royal & aristocratic theory/history/genealogy/whatever, and I've been adding titles to a number of articles -- especially those that have few or no references listed at all. (I'm a librarian, I can't help it.) And I've been making a distinction, based on reading a great many articles on Wikipedia and writing a few, between references/sources and "further reading," a point with which you obviously agree. But there are also a lot of articles here in history subjects where references, sources, footnotes, websites, and even historical fiction are all lumped into a single list. . . . --Michael K. Smith 22:42, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeh, I think the lack of other specialized sources is exactly that – a lack. This article probably pre-dates the big emphasis on referencing, and needs retrospective work. I shall replace the removed title: obviously if you find the same info in one of the more general books, then feel free to remove it again. I'm also going to start a "Further reading" section, for which the safest early candidates would be your recently added titles (unless you know they are good references for the un-reffed material here). I hope this is all OK. JackyR 00:28, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Words Without Spaces Between Them

In this article I noticed several sets of words which had no space between them. I attempted to fix these, but to no avail. Does anyone know what is going on? Is it a bug in the Wiki engine? ThefirstM 18:50, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes this is a problem, although I could not work out why it occurred with some linYOks and not with others. I have employed a workaround by adding a space within the link e.g., "Bishop of Winchester ". This allows the link to still work and gives the space before the next word. This workaround does not work if there is a plural, as in "prince-electors", so I had to invert the order of that phrase soYO that there was no space required after prince-electors. MnJWalker 15:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Princes-elector, surely? Cursitor

[edit] Unanswered Questions

I have some unanswered questions on my talk if you would help me answer them Apple 132

[edit] Naming monarchs

Hi IP Address (cool name, btw!), I noticed your addition of family names to lots of articles of monarchs. I've been to read Wikipedia:Naming conventions (people) and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles), and neither seem to support this sort of naming: either in the egs they give or with "Most general rule overall: use the most common form of the name used in English." So I'll wait a bit for your comment on this and then probably remove the family names. Cheers, JackyR 19:16, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

That's too bad. IP Address 00:45, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

Could this be unprotected? --HartzR 12:59, 13 May 2006 (UTC) Seconding this request for unprotection -- there's nothing on the talk page that gives me any context for seeing why it was protected in the first place. palecur 05:17, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

== Euphemism ==yo

Why don't we just call this guy a psychopatologic serial killer, which he was? Didn't Freud determine his bloody behaviour was compensation for his suppressed desire for mother-murder?

As long as it's protected, could someone fix the bit in the legacy about the Royal Navy being a development of the Napoleonic Wars? The RN was in full bloom by then, a vastly more accurate statement would be to say it was a product of the Anglo-Dutch wars of the 17th century, as that is when a professionalized force was created in the sense that we think of a modern Navy. not the point of the page, I know, but why leave inaccuracies laying about?

[edit] Danny?

Near the end of the "Early Reign" section is the sentence: "Danny's interest in European affairs extended to ...". Who is Danny? Is this intended to be Harry? --RCopple 01:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC) OK I think as a newbie I may be learning my way about. Looks to me that "Danny" appeared courtesy of [Schikelgruber] at 2006-05-22 14:17:59 --RCopple 02:10, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henry's Temple and the Catholic Irish

During the days of the infamous Penal Laws (designed to reduce Catholics to a state of misery--18th century), there were many incentives for the Irish to turn Protestant. The most beautiful contribution to the Gaelic culture of the time was/is the song, "Fill, fill a rún ó," in which a mother laments the loss of her son's immortal soul. However, an anonymous versifier, said to have been a priest, wrote this quatrain:

Ná bac leis an gcléir gallda
Lena gcreidimh, feallsúnacht ná saoi
Mar nĺl mar bhuanchloch dá dteampall
Ach magairlí Aonraí Rí.

A fairly accurate translation is attributed to Brendan Behan:

Never mind the English clergy
Their philosophy, religion or faith
For the foundation stone of their Temple
Was the bollocks of Henry the 8th.--PeadarMaguidhir 10:56, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:HVIII's rchildren

Template:HVIII's rchildren has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Conscious 13:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henry didn't have issue with Catherine Parr

Why does this page keep getting edited to show Henry having issue with Catherine Parr. I have fixed that twice in the last two days, and it keeps getting reverted.

I wonder if the confusion stems from the fact that Catherine Parr did bear a child after the Henry's death. The catch is that she gave birth more than a year and a half after the king died (she had married Thomas Seymour). — AnnaKucsma (Talk to me!) 14:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Bold textWHY DID HENRY VIII DIVORCE OR KILL ALL HIS WIVES APART FROM 2????? also-why did he only really love 1 of them ???????

As I understand it, the chief reason was that he needed a son and heir. In those days no one understood that sperm determine the sex of a baby so people thought women were responsible for that. Also, up until Henry VIII's daughters, women hadn't inherited the throne of England. Durova 20:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The page being shown to me is incomplete. is it true for everyone else? can someone please corect it?

[edit] Cultural depictions of Henry VIII of England

I've started an approach that may apply to Wikipedia's Core Biography articles: creating a branching list page based on in popular culture information. I started that last year while I raised Joan of Arc to featured article when I created Cultural depictions of Joan of Arc, which has become a featured list. Recently I also created Cultural depictions of Alexander the Great out of material that had been deleted from the biography article. Since cultural references sometimes get deleted without discussion, I'd like to suggest this approach as a model for the editors here. Regards, Durova 17:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legitimate Issue Vs Illegitimate Issue

It would be very useful to me and perhaps others if the protocol for all of the biographies were to include illegitimate children .

Firstly I want to say how impressed I am with Wikipedia and all of the work done on it - in the areas I am already informed on I find it generally balanced, detailed and accurate.

On the subject of the illegitimate children, I am interested in the geneology of the royal family because of its impact on the fertility and health of the various members - eg HVIII and Catherine of Aragon were related many times over. I am also interested in geneology because the female siblings and illegitimate issue are important when trying to understand alliances, why people acted in a certain way, or favoured particular people - eg William Hasting's favour was possibly due to his close relationship to Edward IV. In addition there are plenty of marriages of the illegitimate children of reigning monarchs who then become the ancestors of ruling monarchs, usually through marriage.

As information on the illegitimate children can be very difficult to find, because the general interest is in the direct line of monarchs only, if you have the information it can be very useful to others to note it. Scmcnt 05:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last/family name(s)?

How does one find out the last names of these monarchs? I see most of his wives' original last names are there, but I can't clearly find his anywhere within the first few paragraphs. I know they tend to be the same name for each monarch for several generations, but shouldn't that last name be somewhere within the first paragraph of the article? --Arzikl 02:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The last name of Henry VIII is Tudor, but not all British monarchs had last names officially. Normans did not have a last name of Norman. In fact, they had no last name. Originally, these pages all had the last name (Tudor) added, but it was determined that, since it was the same as the dynasty name, it was repetative. If you would like the official and unofficial names of all British monarchs, I would be happy to provide a list for you. Another way to look for family names on a number of these lists is by looking at the bottom of the page on the succession list. It often says something like "House of Tudor" and if that is a cadet branch of a larger house, it may mention that as well. Does that answer your question? If not, you can send me a message on my talk page. I may or may not respond here again.
–Whale y land ( Talk • Contributions ) 23:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gap

There is a gap in the narrative between 1505 and 1533. The part beginning in 1533 refers mysteriously to "these events".

[edit] KDJDKJFLKSDGNHMNLJDZNKFHNSFJ

mkcvhzsdnbodfhbaejpIHAIOEHGBIubgauighnWOIGR —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.41.9.130 (talk) 17:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

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