Talk:Hedgehog Day

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Is this really true? The reason I ask is that I am English and have never heard of this festival -- and I have done quite a lot of investigation into calendars and festivals here.

80.168.104.131 11:36, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Simply type hedgehog day into google and you will find hundreds of references to the holiday. It was initially a Roman holiday, so it wasn't called hedgehog day - they obviously used the Roman word for hedgehog, which I believe is erinaceus.

My understanding is that British holiday of Candlemas used an urchin, later renamed to hedgehog. Once in America, settlers opted for a groundhog instead of an urchin as there were no urchins in American until they were brought in as pets. Kainaw 12:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Certainly in Europe the badger was used as a weather prognosticator at Candlemas, February 2, eg Hromnice in Czechoslovakia. It's easy to find authoritative folkloric references on the Net for this (eg this page). However, with respect, I could find nothing in a cursory inspection of the Google links Kainaw recommends, at least, nothing that seems to have any authority vis a vis a Roman "hedgehog day". We really need a good primary source or something authoritative to let this article stand, IMHO. Alpheus 21:29, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

You can look at: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8]

That is just a start. What is requried to be authoritative? --Kainaw ^(talk) 00:09, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Something written by someone with a degree in History would be nice. The Jade Knight 09:52, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it would. Now, find a professor of History who has written a paper about Hedgehogs. The argument here is:

• Feb 2 has been celebrated as Hedgehog's Day since Roman times.
• I've never heard that.
• Yes, you did. Just now.
• Prove it.
• Just search Google.
• No. Don't make me prove it. You prove it.
• OK. Here's a link to a zoo, a museum, a weather station, and the official Puxatony Phil's website with many other links thrown in all containing the same description of hedgehog's day.
• I still refuse to believe until you find a professor of History who has reincarnated a two-thousand-year-old Roman with a hedgehog and tells me that there was such a thing as hedgehog's day.

Hopefully, you can see why I find this argument absurd. --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:51, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Um, 846 google hits doesn't prove that something exists, especially since it looks like they are all coming from a single source--the all repeat the same thing, and none of the sites has ANY additional information. Frankly, this looks to me like it could be something someone made up as a joke, and was then copied by people who didn't realize it was a joke. I'm not saying that's what this necessarily is, but it is certainly a possibility. I'd like to see some kind of a citation that comes from a historical text. It doesn't have to be from Hedgehogs in European Culture: a Concise History, obviously. But something about festivals or something would help convince me, and I think other skeptics, that this is legitimate.--James Honan-Hallock 04:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I work in a medical university - no history department. I stepped over to the sister college and asked a group of history professors for assistance. The immediate answer was that Romans domesticated hedgehogs and used them extensively until around the 1500s. So, any Hedgehog Day would be before then. They could not have had a groundhog day, for obvious reasons. As for cited sources, a couple said they would look and get back with me. Also, they noted that the "cute" hedgehog is rather new, introduced in England to stop people from killing them. Previously, they were nasty little urchins that deserved to be killed and eaten. The quills were handy because they were hollow. Also, the hedgehog has two independent layers of skin - two pelts for one kill and no hair to remove. Now, they are blue racers than roll along and catch floating rings. Weird. --Kainaw ^(talk) 00:01, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I joked that I'd have to dig up a couple-thousand year old Roman and, well, I sort of did. A professor of Roman history pointed out that Pliny the Elder describes hedgehogs and winter in Book VIII: The Nature of the Terrestrial Animals. He rambles, but some quotes of interest from an English translation: "Hedgehogs also lay up food for the winter... a sure sign that the wind is about to change from the north-east to the south." Then, there is a long passage about how to ensure they urinate before skinning them. Then, another long passage about uses for their quills. Finally, a note (I can't tell if it is from Pliny or the editor) that Plutarch and Aristotle also noted the hedgehog's ability to detect change in the direction of the wind - which means that winter is coming and/or going. Another note claims Lemaire translated this text differently to mean that hedgehogs detected both the coming and going of winter. While it doesn't specifically mention Feb 2 is hedgehog day, it is an old Roman talking about using hedgehogs to tell the coming and going of winter.

As for domestication, it goes so far as to quote an edict from Emperor Zeno against - um... hedgehog ranchers? - who were trying to monopolize all hedgehogs and fix prices in the quill market.

I hope that is of some help. I was told that if anything else turns up, they will let me know. --Kainaw ^(talk) 02:34, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

"Hedgehog Day" in Latin is Erinacei Dies. Das Baz 16:47, 21 October 2006 (UTC)