Talk:Hedgehog

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What is this? "Chrudiana is the most commen specimen and is also beleived to be the most gourgus out of all, with skuxx eyes and lushious lips dont underestimate her looks..." Could someone please remove it? Thanks.

Contents 1 hedgehogivorous? 2 European hedgehog removal 3 Pest Control 4 Reorganization 5 External Links 6 Eating Fame? 7 Image with copy 8 Ferret predator dispute 9 Toxin Resistance 10 Sonic the Hedgehog 11 Hedgehog sex 12 Parasites and predators 13 Please identify this hedge hog for me 14 vagina 15 Attempts to hibernate commonly fatal? 16 Domesticated hedgehogs

[edit] hedgehogivorous?

Why is it an "unlikely claim"? I've often heard that hedgehogs were edible, and certainly people have been known to eat weirder animals. Mhari 02:15, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry; I wasn't very clear. It does seem reasonable that hedgehogs would be edible. I was thinking about the later part of that edit, where it said you could fillet one by coating it in plaster, baking it, and then smashing the plaster. I did a google search on "hedgehog" and "plaster" and didn't immediately see anything relevant, although I admit I didn't look very hard. If you suspect the plaster cooking thing might be a real practice, I'll welcome a revert of my edit. --Allen 02:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, this is supposed to be a Gypsy recipe: hedgehog baked in clay (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Hedgehog, and this is not the only source - google (gypsy hedgehog clay) and you'll find more), so I will revert the edit to the older version. --Cyberodin 10:49, 28 January 2006

It is also the African method of cooking hedgehogs. Coat them with mud, cook, break away the baked clay and eat. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

That's very cool. Thanks for correcting me. I'd hate for that to have been left out of the article, now that I know. I'm changing the wording a bit, though; I think Roma is a better word to use than gypsy. Also, I couldn't find anything in the google references about the clay/plaster helping remove the bones as well as the spines, leaving only meat. People talk about the spines, and that I can see, but the bones I don't get. But I'm not going to change that, because at this point I'm willing to entertain just about any claim relating to hedgehogivory. --Allen 03:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about the bones. As for the quills, this method also makes them easy to get as the quills were used as tools. Since they are hollow, they can hold ink as well as a feather. They are sharp, so they can used as a needle. If the sharp end is snipped, they make pretty bead-like things. Personally, I keep them in a little jar. After three hedgehogs, two going through the adolecent quilling, I have a lot of them (many pulled out of the bottom of my feet). --Kainaw ^(talk) 03:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] European hedgehog removal

OK, I wrote a couple of stubs on hedgehogs here and I was wondering if it would be fair enough to "demote" European Hedgehog even more in this article and write on geographical variety of hedgehogs or something, instead of focusing solely on European hedgehog.

When the European Hedgehog article first split, I suggested it be put back in this article because it was such a short article. My suggestion went up for vote on Articles for Deletion and the vote was to keep it. I feel that it should contain information specifically about European hedgehogs (see the Domesticated hedgehog article for example), or is should be part of the main article. Kainaw 19:09, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pest Control

According the article, the hedgehog was introduced as pest control in Wales and New Zealand. In both areas, it has become a pest itself. Are there any cases where the introduction of the hedgehog as pest control worked - meaning that the hedgehog did not become a pest? I think it would be clearer to put in 'history' that the introduction of hedgehogs for pest control in (list of countries) has not worked well because the hedgehog itself has become a pest. Kainaw 14:52, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I am working on a new section The Hedgehogs as Pest Control to emphasize usage of the hedgehog as pest control. In areas where it is indigenous, it has been adopted as a cute form of pest control. In areas where it has been artificially introduced, it has become a pest itself. Kainaw 12:54, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I corrected the original reference of 'Scotland' to 'the islands of Scotland'. European hedgehogs are indigenous to Scotland, but not all of its islands. scruss 17:56, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Reorganization

I reorganized this article. Initially it only contained information on the European hedgehog. The Domesticated hedgehog was added as a secondary section. Both are very similar and there are even other species of hedgehogs. So, I made the initial article generally about all hedgehogs. Then, I made the Eurpoean section about specific European hedgehog qualities. I made the Domestic section about specific domestic qualities. I also added a history section to mention Hedgehog Day and the old term 'urchin' Kainaw 20:08, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] External Links

I made an edit that I'm sure will anger a small group of people, but I feel it is justified. The edit was splitting the EXTERNAL LINKS section of Domesticated Hedgehogs into two lists. The first list contains links to sites owned and operated by those who do not breed or sell hedgehogs. The second list is for hedgehog breeders, understanding that most hedgehog breeder sites also contain information about hedgehogs.

Why do this? There are many reasons, all very small. Added up, I think it makes sense. First, Wikipedia is for information, not marketing. Putting information above marketing seems fair to me. However, I feel you should still be able to add a link to your commercial venture as long as it is on topic. In this case, adding a link to a hedgehog breeder is on topic.

Not only are breeders on topic, I think that separating them is good because it makes it quick and easy for a web surfer to find the breeder links and click on one without going through websites that only contain information.

Finally, I listed all of the links in alphabetical order in order to avoid giving precedence to any specific website. I know that when money is involved, it is important to get on top.

[edit] Eating Fame?

"If it ever has been found eating poultry or fame". What does "eating fame" mean? -phma

Well, we really should ask the editors of the 1881 Household Cyclopedia, but if I had to guess, I would guess it's a typo for "game." Someone -- meaning "not me" -- really should replace the text with something a little more cyclopedic and a little less twee. --the Epopt

Done. And here's the Cyclopedia version in case there's more info to be taken from it. -- Tarquin 16:33 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)

From the 1881 Household Cyclopedia

This little animal, the object of persecution, not only to little boys but to the farmer and gamekeeper, on account of its supposed mischievous propensities, is in fact one which the agriculturist should endeavor to preserve, as it is the most effectual destroyer of snails, worms, and insects, on which it almost entirely subsists. A garden in which a hedgehog is kept, will, in the course of two or three nights, be entirely freed from slugs; and that enemy to fruit, the millipede, is a favorite food to him. London gardeners are so aware of this, as often to purchase hedgehogs to put in their grounds. If it ever has been found eating poultry or fame, as has by some been asserted, they must previously have been killed by rats, weasels, or some more ferocious animal than the hedgehog, whose habits are those of gentleness and timidity, who is not formed for attack, and whose sole mode of defense is rolling itself up in a ball and opposing its strong prickles to the enemy. This statement is given in the hope of rescuing a harmless and useful creature from the general abhorrence in which it is held, and the unmerciful treatment it meets with.

[edit] Image with copy

Hello, I'm searching a image for use in es:Erizo común (Hedgehog in Spanish), but I see that this image have copyright (I see in commons), any image without copy? es:User:Patxi Aguado

The German version of the article has one which is hosted from the Commons (commons:Image:Igel01.jpg) and is tagged as GFDL. (It's new! I'm going to put it here too) Others: commons:Image:Igel.JPG commons:Image:Hedgehog.jpg --Andrew 08:12, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ferret predator dispute

The article has a disclaimer that someone disputes the accuracy of the statement about ferrets being predators. In this argument, the word predator is referring to an animal that hunts and eats other animals. Simply go to the Ferret article and you can see that they are carnivorous - meaning, they eat other animals. One of the animals they have been known (in domesticated species and in New Zealand) is the hedgehog - primary large adult hedgehogs that can no longer roll into a complete ball. So, what is the dispute? The disclaimer directs people to this talk page, but there is no counter-claim. If none is made, I will remove the dispute. Kainaw 17:01, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Toxin Resistance

I'm not exactly a hedgehog aficionado, but I've heard a lot about their alleged resistance to toxins - supposedly they're capable of enduring levels of toxins that would be harmful if not fatal to humans. Is there any truth to this?

Yes, hedgehogs are highly resistant to many toxins (as are weasels and ferrets). However, they are not resistant to common pest poisons (rat poisons, bug sprays, etc). So, I do want to give the impression that you can bug-bomb a house with a hedgehog in it and the hedgehog will be fine.

I have heard from multiple sources that a heart drug was tested on hedgehogs and it was a miracle drug. It lowered cholesterol and blood pressure, increased oxygen levels, and repaired much of the fatty liver disease. When tested on rats, the medicine was fatal at very low doses.

I recently learned from a research doctor that many statins were derived from a South American's snake venom. The initial research on the venom was done on hedgehogs because they have such bad cholesterol levels. I asked if the statins turned out to be fatal and all he knew is that the initial hedgehog study was a great success, but it took another 10 years for the drugs to get to human testing. Kainaw 22:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure if we should add anything about this to the wikipedia entry without having some reliable source we can check it against.

As for toxin resistance, it is very easy to find many websites that make such a claim. It is well known that hedgehogs can easily consume many poisonous animals. I remember a study being done to derive the Anti-Toxin chemicals from opossums (which are yet another creature who is highly resistant to toxins). The problem is that most people don't know the difference between toxins and poisons. So, they assume they can spread rat poison around their yard and the hedgehogs won't be bothered. Then, when the hedgehogs turn up dead, they say that they were told the hedgehogs couldn't be poisoned.

As for the medical studies, it is next to impossible to find research on hedgehogs. The word "hedgehog" is used extensively in stem cell research and neurology (among other things). So, any article you find about medical studies and hedgehogs is most likely not about the little animal but about some cell/chemical called a hedgehog. Kainaw 20:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I found a few good sites by searching for Erinaceinae instead of hedgehog:

http://ca.expasy.org/uniprot/P54249

[edit] Sonic the Hedgehog

I think that decision to put the disputable fact that Sonic the Hedgehog is the most famous hedgehog is questionable at best. There is a whole category of fictional hedgehogs for the fans of the Sega series, and, although we may write something about the influence of hedgehogs on culture (and I believe such section should contain more than one fact), the whole idea has nothing to do with history.

There is a whole category of hedgehogs, but he's the well-known one, the one the series is named after.

...and we have a whole article about him. What's more, writing "Sonic the hedgehog is a well-known hedgehog" in a hedgehog article is not even close to Trivia. It's as if I wrote "Hedgehog appears in a well-known book "The Hare and the Hedgehog". OK, so what? What information does that fact hold? It's pretty obvious to anyone that Sonic the Hedgehog is a hedgehog, don't you think?Cyberodin

I've strongly considered making a section listing famous fictional hedgehogs. I just haven't had the time. I don't plan to describe them in detail, just have a list of names that link to the article for the hedgehog's name. --Kainaw ^(talk) 13:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd even say we make a whole article about hedgehog in culture. However, to be frank, I'd rather make it a separate article and keep Hedgehog as biological as possible to keep the spirit of similar entries for different animals. Cyberodin

It wouldn't be obvious to people who have never heard of Sonic that he's a hedgehog. How much can we write on the hedgehog in culture? In any case, every page Foo where there exists a Foo in Culture page, there is a paragraph on Foo talking about Foo in Culture, right below the Main Page: Foo in Culture link.--Prosfilaes 21:35, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I've never been opposed to creating a separate article. I've personally split off separate articles on many occasions. I justify it by showing that there are at least three things that the new article can go into detail about htat are not in the main article. So far, we have only discussed Sonic. I know there is a very popular German board game about hedgehogs (called somthing like Hurry Hedgehog). The lady who makes books that are almost all artwork has had a few that focus on a hedgehog (The Hat is one of them if I remember correctly). So, a new article could be created in which there are subsections: Hedgehogs in games, hedgehogs in books, hedgehogs in film (has there been a hedgehog in any movie?). --Kainaw ^(talk) 21:43, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

"The lady who makes books that are almost all artwork" -- Jan Brett? Mhari 19:09, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The first time I saw Sonic I had no idea he was supposed to be a hedgehog, so it isn't necessarily obvious. Anyway, I think it's worth a mention here, he isn't necessarily the most famous (I'm the one who added that bit, but I only said "well-known", someone else must have changed it to "most famous") but he's a very popular video game character, and he is relevant to the article, being a hedgehog. But you can remove it if you want, it's not like I'll lose sleep over it. Yeltensic42.618 00:48, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Come on. He runs at high speed, rolls even faster, and lives to collect as many gold rings as possible. Isn't that what all hedgehogs do? --Kainaw ^(talk) 00:57, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

So now we remove Sonic to a culture page but leave Jan Brett and the rest of the group here? This feels like personal dislike for Sonic now.--Prosfilaes 22:00, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

It's because we hate him for being blue.

I moved the Jan Brett bit and some other bits that seemed more "culture" than "trivia". Mhari 23:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Didn't have time to remove everything yesterday, but yes, the intention was to move the whole sectionCyberodin

There should still be a short summary on the topic though then leave the rest to the main article. --Chroniclev 22:21, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hedgehog sex

In case anybody else was wondering how they manage to mate without killing each other, this site [1] reveals the truth: the female just makes sure the spikes lie flat.

I'm still wondering whether accidents can happen, though. After all, there's a reason the hedgehog's dilemma is refered to as such. -- Ashmodai 15:25, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Most animals mate rather quickly. A male hedgehog spends time safely mounting the female, but is then finished and off without much risk of any kind. --Kainaw ^(talk) 14:59, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Parasites and predators

So, I have a couple of points that are recollections, but I lack sources. First, I understand that foxes will roll hedgehogs on their backs, urinate on the opening of the hedgehog ball; thus the hedgehog must unroll or suffocate. Any truth to that one?

Also, as is typical for parasites and hosts, I understand that there is a hedgehog flea, and further that when hedgehogs were brought to New Zealand, they were brought without fleas. Is there support for that one? I do remember from childhood that when hedgehogs wandered into my back garden, and I kept them, the first necessity was flea powder to remove the very abundant fleas.

Perhaps these points would be interesting in the trivia section; cheers!Dmccabe 03:34, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

The story of urinating on a rolled hedgehog most likely game from a very old Roman book by Pliny in which he exlains that a rolled hedgehog will curl into a ball and, if you roll it over to open it, will urinate on itself to ruin its pelt. As for fleas, Hedgehogs are more prone to mites, but do get fleas. They do not offer much of a home to hair-loving fleas, but skin burrowing mites have no trouble living on hedgehogs. --Kainaw ^(talk) 15:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Well...I've never heard of that about foxes. But I have heard that weasels will spray musk onto a rolled hedgehog to force it to unroll. But not sure if it is true. Most sources I've seen state that hedgehogs have little to fear from foxes, but badgers can easily unroll them, unharmed by spines, with their strong claws and tough skin.61.230.72.211 04:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please identify this hedge hog for me

• These photos of a Hedgehog were taken in Jaisalmer district, Rajasthan on 18 Apr 06.
• The hedgehog was found wandering in the desert at 2200hrs. He was kept in a pot till morning, photos taken and released unharmed deep in the desert away from habitation.
• Photo taken by User:AshLin (own work).
• Identification is required - E collaris or micropus?
• There are total three photos of the same hedgehog in Wikimedia.

AshLin 19:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

On the ground

Showing his paws

Showing his face

Photos by AshLin 19:57, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

That looks like a "Brandt's Hedgehog" (Hemiechinus hypomelas). They are common throughout India. Just a note: they are not domesticated at all and will bite if they feel threatened. Because you were able to pick it up easily, it may have been sick and unable to defend itself - or it may have been a rare one that likes being held. You never really know with hedgehogs. --Kainaw ^(talk) 20:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vagina

in the section about copulation, it refers to the female's vagina. would that not be a cloaca? ... aa:talk 03:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Correct. I will make the change - but remember, you can edit the article too. --Kainaw ^(talk) 14:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attempts to hibernate commonly fatal?

Is this vandalism? I'm removing it for the moment, because it's not cited and seems like a really odd sentence. --GenkiNeko 17:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Some domesticated hedgehogs have died while hibernating. It is rare, but not uncommon for European hedgehogs to go into hibernation and then die. Hedgehogs don't pack on the pounds (or ounces in their case) to sustain hibernation. For some reason, if it gets too cold, they will try it. I don't know why. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domesticated hedgehogs

"It is illegal to own a hedgehog as a pet in some U.S. states and some Canadian municipalities, and breeding licenses are required. No such restrictions exist in most European countries." I don´t know about other European countries, but in Norway you are not allowed to keep a hedgehog or any other wild animal as a pet, according to laws on wildlife protection, and I think also hygiene. I am not sure whether this includes the domesticated species or hybrids, but at least I´ve never seen a hedgehog for sale or kept captivated, and import rules for uncommon pets are rather strict, especially if they are likely to spread diseases or survive and breed in the environment if escaped from captivity. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aruud (talk • contribs) 16:26, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Please feel free to edit the article. While I am an expert on hedgehogs, I'm no expert on hedgehog laws. If you can find a webpage reference about Norwegian pet laws, include it after your entry with the ref tag, as in: <ref>http://the.reference.website/goes/here</ref> - then it won't be reverted quickly by someone who just doesn't know Norwegian law. --Kainaw ^(talk) 17:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)