Talk:Heaven's Gate (cult)
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[edit] Comet naming
Just a quick note: "Hale-Bopp" is a proper name describing a particular object of the cometary type. In conventional usage regarding comets, asteroids, constellations, and some other celestial bodies and phenomena, the type preceeds the name, just as it does for many (though not all) proper names in the English language.
The former usage here, "the Hale-Bopp comet," makes about as much sense as the term "the George Bush President," or "the Nicole Kidman actress." There's a reason the wikipedia article on Comet Hale-Bopp is named the way it is, so it is kind of pointless to undo the naming convention with a more complex than necessary piped link. Thanks. Jeff Medkeff 04:23, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)
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- So it's wrong to say Halley's Comet? It should be Comet Haley's instead?--T. Anthony 08:45, 18 September 2005 (UTC) I guess it is I got redirected to Comet Halley. Still I've never known anyone who called it that.--T. Anthony 08:46, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
- Halley's is an expection. It's kind of grandfathered in. Wahkeenah 04:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- So it's wrong to say Halley's Comet? It should be Comet Haley's instead?--T. Anthony 08:45, 18 September 2005 (UTC) I guess it is I got redirected to Comet Halley. Still I've never known anyone who called it that.--T. Anthony 08:46, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
I think that over time, "Halley's Comet" came to be a proper name itself through repeated usage. A comet might be named "Dan's Comet" in the same fashion; the entire genitive phrase is the proper name, not just "Dan." On the other hand, "Hale-Bopp" is the whole proper name of our other example; not "Hale-Bopp's Comet, or "Hale's and Bopp's Comet." Most comets are referred to in this fashion, just like hurricanes. You wouldn't say "the Katrina hurricane," but rather "Hurricane Katrina." Why we are having this discussion here-- I have no idea! And since I can't resist-- does anyone else remember that before Halley's Comet returned in '86, everyone always pronounced it with a long A, as in HALE-ees? And seemingly overnight, that long A became a short a? That blew my mind. Richard Lewis had a great bit about that on Letterman.
[edit] Gnosticism
Can somebody expand on this? I know that it is not directly related to Gnosticism, but that it is quite similar. Please discuss this? 69.248.43.27 03:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
- Beats me. Were the Gnostics suicidal? Wahkeenah 04:50, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Not explicitly, though their lifestyle could be considered such, since their is a dissregard for life in general, and the majority of the sects' emphesis on abstenant self-denial in particular (though there were other sects who where just the opposite, since matter was inherently evil in this philosophy, it would not make much difference what one did).
69.248.43.27 21:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
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- I disagree - though Gnosticism tended, in the main, towards ascetism, recent scholarly work seems to indicate that their world view was more abiguous and ambivalent towards materiality than was previously held. Also, the trait of self-denial is not exclusively Gnostic. As such, while an emphasis on asceticism might be a preliminary parallel with Gnosticism, it is not sufficient for a cult to practise suicide to be Gnostic. In any case, the correct usage of the term 'Gnosticism' is to denote a set of religions of the third century CE; since Heaven's Gate was a twentieth century movement, it could not be 'Gnostic' in the proper sense. Visual Error 00:21, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Suicide technique
Is ingestion of phenobarbital-laced applesauce and vodka lethal? --Abdull 14:48, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
- Alcohol tends to amplify effects of depressant drugs, and alcohol and barbiturates are a particularly dangerous combination since the depressant effects of barbiturates are more broad-based than those of benzodiazepines, which is why benzos are more popular as sedatives these days. You can survive a massive OD of, say, Valium (though I would assume there would be some brain damage), but barbiturates will kill you until you are dead. Alcohol intoxication makes it much easier for them to do so. Haikupoet 19:23, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mark King
I'm curious as to why this article has no mention of former cult member Mark King, who retianed a large amount ot cult property after a court battle with LA County? There's quite a bit out on the net about him and his relationship to Heavensgate. In fact he owns the cult's domain name... Jake b 21:57, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
- A list of members would also be a nice thing here, Mark King would be added. Ninja neko 09:25, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Usage of 'Cult'
I find it unprofessional that the word 'cult' appears in the very title of this page. 'Cult' is a term loaded with moral judgement, which is often used to inhumanize an 'other.' No religion should be so reprimanded. The reference to Heaven's Gate as a cult implies that the members involved were acting under the influence of a force, rather than as believers of an ideology which, however misguided, they judged to be accurate. I submit that this page should be called "Heaven's Gate (religion)"
- So, you are saying that there is no such thing as a cult? Really?
- A cult has specific qualities that are pretty well defined. Cults and the word "cult" carry a bad connotation because the things that define a cult as a "cult" are pretty bad. Perhaps calling it a “religious cult” rather than just “cult” would be more appropriate, but by all commonly accepted definitions, Heavens Gate was a cult.
- From Wikipedia:
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- In religion and sociology, a cult is a cohesive group of people (often a relatively small and recently founded religious movement) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be far outside the mainstream. Its separate status may come about either due to its novel belief system, because of its idiosyncratic practices or because it opposes the interests of the mainstream culture.
- Sounds like Heavens Gate to me...
- By the way, you should not be afraid to sign your comments. Jake b 05:05, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Heaven's Gate in popular culture
Mike and Gary the television show had an episode making fun of this...
- The list of popular culture references is longer than the article itself...
- Maybe a seperate page should be created for the references, and just a few striking ones should remain in this article.
- Ninja neko 09:23, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
- It's completely unbalanced as it stands - we actually have very little info on the cult, and lots of random tv references. Secretlondon 07:01, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Erroneous Mention of Scientology?
The third paragraph of "Origins and History" seems entirely out of place. It describes a posting to usenet about Scientology and the Cult Awareness Network, which seem unconnected to the rest of this article. --Joe Fusion 18:00, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 'Alleged' cult?
Based on the current structure of category:Cults, which is now a metacategory, this is listed under alleged cults. This was done to clean up the category, which contained cult researchers, anti-cult activists, cults, concepts about cults, etc. and the category is fairly new. Another category name that has been considered is category:Groups that have been referred to as cults to echo the List of groups referred to as cults and this is probably a better option so that clearcut cases don't get slapped with an 'alleged' label. Antonrojo 13:50, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
- See Category_talk:Alleged_cults regarding this possible alternate name for the category. Antonrojo 15:47, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Purple cloths?
I have recently read that these purple cloths were in fact purple armbands which read "Heaven's gate away team" Has anyone else heard about this?
[edit] Cross-article problems:
In the Cult Suicide article, on the subject of the Heaven's Gate Cult, it says:
"Some male members of the cult underwent voluntary castration in preparation for the genderless life they believed awaited them after the suicide."
However, in the main Heaven's Gate Article, it says:
"Many male members of the cult voluntarily underwent castration as an extreme means of maintaining the ascetic lifestyle."
So what's the real answer?
Inspector Baynes 17:34, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Martin Gardner reports that there were seven castrati in the cult, which is a bit more precise than "some" or "many". See http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n4_v21/ai_19727569/pg_4
[edit] eerie synchronicity
Robert Silverberg's 1985 novel "Tom O'Bedlam" prefigures Heaven's gate almost exactly--even down to the San Diego location. ---miguelj
[edit] New Followers
Hi I was browsing the internet and found that "God's Gates" had been erased but I found another "Revolution" of followers you'll can change it back if you want to
[edit] Purge list of popular culture references
This really needs reducing. Particularly those portions which merely resemble the cult, rather than being directly influenced by it, need to go. --Saforrest 05:42, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
