Talk:Hazel McCallion

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Contents 1 Neutrality and sufficient content 2 Campaigning 3 Hazel McCallion's "ideological pretensions" 4 References 4.1 Publications 4.2 Noting references 5 oldest 6 Hazel McCallion's Maiden Name?

[edit] Neutrality and sufficient content

This is quite a glowing article for a fairly divisive figure. The section I marked makes assertations that are not backed up with evidence. In fact, this article reads like even more of a mash note than her official biography. The description of Mississauga as a shining suburban (sorry, "urban") paradise is questionable.

This article needs expansion. McCallion is a colorful, popular, and notorious figure. To claim she is without "ideological pretensions" (with no evidence, of course) is misleading at best. Cleduc 19:25, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

And it turns out: this suspect content was removed once before, and then added back by User:Mikerussell. The same POV issues remain however. I'm deleting the POV parts now. Cleduc 19:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Hazel was accused of racist remarks a few years ago, 2001 or 2002 I believe. The nature of the comments were basically an implication that people of ethnic heritage (particularly South Asian) were draining the health care system. She also mocked their "native costumes." I haven't had much luck finding the articles, maybe someone else has seen them recently. This, and Hazel's recent car accident, would give her article a greater sense of balance. 72.137.224.24 01:20 17 October 2006

[edit] Campaigning

I've heard that Hurricane Hazel hasn't had to campaign for the past little while... that could easily be wrong, but it would be nice if it were true, eh? Kareeser|^Talk! 17:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

It very much is true. During the last municipal campaign she took a vacation to China, and asked all her supporters offering donations to give the money to charity instead. I added a small note about that in the article. Snickerdo 21:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hazel McCallion's "ideological pretensions"

I suppose this is rather belated, by six months or so, but it is the first time I read your comments and they sparked my curiousity. To say that Mayor McCallion has no ideological pretension means she does not closely or recurrently align herself with a clearly defined political party or right or left wing policy framework. You're definition must be different, at least I am assuming, so before I make a revision to the article in the future, I thought I would ask for an explanation to your problem with such an accurate assememnt. In the new edit I will add info on how she has worked with both provincial and federal parties and her own lack of a university education which may be a contributing factor in the absence of an ideological orientation. Also, the fact she is a municipal politician adds much, if not all-to-obvious, weight to her absence of defining herself as a party affliated politician. Quiet frankly, I think you are biasing the article out of your ignorance. --Mikerussell 07:08, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

To write that she has no ideological pretensions or orientations is meaningless opinion and cannot be proven. If it is meant to mean something else, then it should be written another way. As it was written, I could read it to mean that McCallion holds no ideology above any other -- that, for example, she'd be equally comfortable with Trotskyite Communism and Mussolini Fascism. If you wish to state "she does not closely or recurrently align herself with a clearly defined political party or right or left wing policy framework" then that's what you should write, and provide sources to prove. I myself have some doubts on the latter part, and would watch for neutral, reliable sources to back it up (as opposed to original research). Also, I respectfully request that you refrain from making assumptions about my ignorance on the subject. Cleduc 19:31, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

It strikes me as biased or POV to interpret the word ‘ideological’ in this article- a civic leader in Mississauga- in the fashion you have in your response. Do you seriously think the average reader would assume she is a Trotskyite? Get a grip on the language used, and not a strict, exaggerated interpretation of the word. We cannot assume every wikipedia reader is a moron; the context under which one writes cannot be debased by some irrational standard applied by a single opinionated contributor. Apart from taking a rather straightforward and frank assessment of your qualification on the topic, namely Mayor McCallion and Mississauga’s governance, too personally, you have failed to offer much in response to counter my original astonishment at the surprise I have at your edit of the article. I will try to add more and replace a picture that as taken down, but overall, unless you really think that it is prudent, logical, or good prose to make certain ‘ideology’ a word coined by Karl Marx and tied to his view of History, a word almost totally divorced from its original meaning, which currently covers a wide spectrum of political opinion, is used in some strict academic fashion, then I suspect we will meet again on the Hazel McCallion page. Thanks for the response. --Mikerussell 00:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I look forward to reading your changes on Hazel McCallion, and encourage you to look for sources which document her freedom from ideology. Words are what we have to work with, and they matter. Cleduc 00:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't want to pick a fight, but in re-reading this whole exchange I thought I might clarify a point. The reason why I said "Quiet frankly, I think you are biasing the article out of your ignorance" is not anyway intended as an assessment of you or your background- that is why I said you misconstrued it too personally, but perhaps I was not clear. The statement was/is based on my reading of the article and your contributions to it (as seen in history listing) which do not provide any information on what ideological position she does have. My actual comment way back when (6 months ago) was she has 'no set ideological pretensions'- italics now added, which you saw as POV, but you have not ascribed her any ideology either, thus you must be 'ignorant' of what ideology she has, yet certain she has one. Well, what it is it then? You add info about ring tones, but nothing about her ideological views, why not? That is why I claimed you were 'ignorant', it was a 'descriptive' evaluation in my mind of what the article currently states. At any rate, just thought I would make that comment clear because it may be days before I get around to getting a usable picture and updating the article. When I do, I am sure you may have comments. However, you must also be prepared with, in your words, to have "neutral, reliable sources to back it up (as opposed to original research)" to support your own opinions. Thanks for debating. --Mikerussell 05:01, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

The new article Mikerussell wrote looks really good. There are a couple of points I'd like to establish some references for:

• Biographical notes. Is there a comprehensive source for this, like a printed biography?

I will try to get a citable reference.

• CP rail spill & subsequent evacuation. good source?

Need to find one.

• Conflict of interest. Source? All I can find is this person and I'm thinking I don't want to hang an argument on that.

I really don't have any knowledge of this issue but from this article, I assumed it was true, or at least possible, but maybe it is one of the things that someone planted and nobody ever did the research to confirm its validy.

• Anglophone exodus linked to Mississauga's growth. Unfortunately, Wikipedia is fairly silent on this... the Montreal article deafeningly so. Is there a source which can document this, and more specifically the link to the growth of Mississauga? It makes sense, but I don't want to draw this conclusion without a source for cover.

This, I must confess on reflection is partially based on my personal, ancedotal experience as a child in Mississauga and having so many new classmates from Baconsfield and other Montreal anglophone, upper-middle class neighbourhoods enroll in school. Howvever, there must be clear, objective sources which document the flight of corporate head offices and jobs from Montreal to Toronto. Families left as jobs left, but also many left because of Bill 101, the law which mandated French language schooling for all children unless each parent had been taught in English in Quebec. In fact, if I had more time now I would try to do a better job of researching this myself, but it is a fact that many anglophones left in the late 70s because they feared a further erosion of their 'rights'- and the Quebec government and population did not much object to the migration. This might be why the migration is not mentioned often, there is a tincture of racism to the whole thing perhaps. Although whether it was racism correcting racism is another issue; after all, the history of the Province was one in which the minority group (the English-speakers) were disproportionatly found in high-paying, commercial or adminstrative positions, partially because English was the language of business and commerce, if not law and government, and French was the language of the 'masses'. For a francophone to rise to a position of power they had to learn English, if not work and live in English. The article of Bill 101 gives some insight into this- in that the change under the PQ was a clear and decisive policy to end the dominence of English in the 'upper classes' or 'business world', and thus diminish the disadvantage Francophones had in employment and government. I think even to be a Montreal Police officer before the PQ you had to speak English, not French, whereas a French Cop would have to know both languages. So maybe this is way too much to incorporate in the Hazel McCallion article, but some objective statistics should be found that testify to the population and business shift to Toronto. Right now I don't have time to do the research, but somebody might, or I might try later. --Mikerussell 03:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Pearson Airport Terminal 3. I also recall her extracting a pound of flesh from the Feds... the "world's largest septic pool" quote comes to mind. Is there an easy source for this, or do we have to hit the newspaper archives (groan)?

again, good question, there should be a usable source, but i will need more time to get it. --Mikerussell 04:08, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

• Gridlock and failure to achieve transportation goals. I can dig out the original EIS for the Transitway, but I don't have a good source for her own role in its (non-)development and whether it was her initiative (I know, I know, who else's could it have been?). Is there someplace that talks about what her vision for Mississauga's transportation infrastructure was and how she didn't accomplish it, or did she actually achieve her vision (and it's what we have today)? Cleduc 04:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Publications

Here are some sources I found at the Toronto Public Library and the Mississauga Library System. Are there any other published sources recommended?

• Madam mayor the life and times of Hurricane Hazel. Rogers Video, 2001. (available for loan at TPL, MLS)
• Urbaniak, Tom. Farewell, town of Streetsville : the year before amalgamation. Epic Press, 2002. (Reference stacks only at TPL; MLS has 16 copies)
• An Interview with Mayor Hazel McCallion about her career in politics, Mississauga Heritage Foundation, 2001. (MLS Call #: CAN R 971. 3535 INT)
• Mayor Hazel McCallion. Newspaper clippings. Mississauga Library System. 1980- (MLS, Ref stacks)
• Moving forward together : a discussion paper. Hazel McCallion, Mel Lastman, Nancy L. Diamond, Barbara Hall, 1996. (MLS Call #: R/352./07135/MOV)
• Shape the future [2003] : Central Ontario Smart Growth Panel : final report (MLS: Call #: CAN R 338. 9713 ONT)

[edit] Noting references

Perhaps we should use the <ref> system to footnote these points. Cleduc 04:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] oldest

Is she the oldest mayor in the world? Or of Ontario? or something?--Sonjaaa 18:09, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but she certainly is the sexiest. --72.57.241.84 22:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hazel McCallion's Maiden Name?

Does anybody have her maiden name? It would be less awkward to write "Hazel McCallion (born Hazel xxxxxx)" in the first section... 64.228.130.138 04:34, 6 August 2006 (UTC)