Talk:Haymarket Riot

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[edit] PoV

The following was deleted from "street fighting" as not especially relevant there:

In Chicago, this marked the use of a bomb agathe syupi peopleinst authorites, triggering the riot. As presumably an Anarchist, or a protestor hurled a bomb that killed a Chicago police officer, and several protestors. At which point the police opened fire on the protesters killing dozens, wounding 200. While people have been arressted and found guilty of the bombing, most historian agree that those who were tried probably had nothing to do with the bombing, that Chicago justice system at the time was too badly corrupt, and the business leaders too strong to really have a fair trial.
This riot proved that Chicago's success and business models were badly flawed. It is believed alchol, social class inequalities, and difficult labor in effect made hard people. This riot touched off international protests around the world, and permanently tarnished Chicago's reputation, as being the business place for everyone. The compounded corruption by the business leaders of the time, as well as the harshness of punishment created for Chicago events that would help lead up to the St. Valentines day massacure.
People are discouraged from using or provoking the use of lethal force against police officers. As it will guarantee that the police officer will kill people right after lethal force is used against them in a protest situation. Even if the protestors may be right, the second lethal force is used, anything the protestor may have been right on, will be completely ignored. Social order will be maintained at whatever the cost, and to most people quoting a business leader of the time, "life is cheap".

I don't know how useful it is (very POV) but it shouldn't be lost in the murk. --Andrew 08:13, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC)

It's an accurate sentiment but inaccurate history and analysis. Wyss 07:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who Was Michael K

The caption of one of the photos reads "Michael K at the statueless pedestal of the Policemen Monument, Chicago IL. MK took to his too early grave whatever he knew about the 1969 and 1970 bombings". This is obviously related to the 1969/1970 Weather Underground bombings mentioned in the article. The article, however, does not mention Michael K at all.

Does anyone know who Michael K was? An An 05:29, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Fixed. Michael K was an activist who enigmatically alluded to knowledge of bombing the statue. Thanks Carptrash for the info.An An 02:30, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Current revision is openly biased.

it needs to be changed. don't proselytize. Lockeownzj00 16:43, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Indeed. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 07:33, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Then change it.-- Revolutionary Left | Che y Marijuana 18:55, Apr 14, 2005 (UTC)
that appears to be what we're doing. Lockeownzj00 02:11, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I don't see much that needs changing. If you can show me something that is proselytizing, I'll help you edit it. 17.102.46.100 19:07, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

The article is fine as it is. Why do right-wingers always want to re-write history THEIR way?

why dont you look at the edit history to when i edited? the article rang of the "heroes..." offending sentences:
'called heroically for workers...'
'THe police opened fire on the crowd, murdering at will'
'stating what everyone knew to be the truth...'
'Activist Michael K at the statueless pedestal of the Policemen Monument, Chicago IL. MK took to his too early grave'
the fucking edit caption was: 'The Haymarket Martyrs went to their deaths for us!'
and, if you took 5 seconds to read the history, again youd realise i am an anarchist and the foremost thing we need to stop is ::skewed propaganda.
Lockeownzj00 23:46, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

Are there still any specific POV concerns that have not been addressed or can we remove the notice now? Kaldari 15:43, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Take it down! I can't see a 'dispute'. If there's anything to be worked on, let's work it anarchist-style - in peace! An An 07:39, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Where was the "meeting near the McCormick plant" what streets? Wegerje 19:46, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Was Haymarket really an anarchist driven protest?


[edit] looks like my changes were labeled vandalism

more fauxlibertarians at work it would seem. My changes were correct. Yours are wrong. What part of my changes constitute vandalism?

And what happened to my account?

Why can't I make edits?

[edit] what happened to my info about the new monument?

I added new info about the new monument in my edit, and it was REMOVED!

Look, fauxLibertarians, you can't tell ME anything about Haymarket. I have ALL the info about it already.

FYI, here is a photo of the new monument: http://photos2.flickr.com/3699231_788bb338ca.jpg?v=0

Further, in his zeal to remove my non-rightwing edit, one of my accusers pointed to the title of my edit page, pointing out that it was biased. Well, it was, but OBVIOUSLY, the title of the edit page is not relevant to the accuracy of my edits, as that title is NOT included as part of the displayed edit.

YOUR bias is showing.

NOW what happened to my account? And why can't I edit?

[edit] here is an idea, 69.154.176.141

If you establish a persona here, and a bit of a track record, and actually sign your postings, then you are likely to be taken more seriously. I, for one, am interested in getting as much sculpture as possible on wikipedia and will back you a long way. However claiming that you know ALL about Haymarket is ludicrous at best and who-knows-what-? at worst. Carptrash 17:25, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaned up

I have cleaned up this article, removing the inaccuracies (most were related to the old police statue), adding some details along with a reference to the new statue installed in 2004, and a pic of it. Anyone have a date on the MK pic? Wyss 17:53, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Ask Carptrash An An 00:53, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Not the Place for an Op-Ed

Someone put what appears to be the entire text of an op-ed piece condemning radical labor by some guy named George Frederic Parsons into the aftermath section. This is not needed and seems very pov to me. I took out the text but kept the intro. If anyone wants to put a few quotes from the piece in, be my guest.

I integrated it into the previous section. It's ok to briefly mention public opinion on both sides but truth be told, getting into quotations would quickly turn this article into a data dump of running 19th century rhetoric and since both "sides" made huge mistakes in judgement at almost every step, most of it would likely distract from the documented story of the incident itself and its aftermath. Wyss 07:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] question about numbers

A lit, fused bomb whistled over the heads of onlookers and landed near the police line, killing twelve people including a policeman, Mathias J. Degan (seven other policemen later died from their injuries). The police immediately opened fire on the crowd, injuring dozens. Many of the wounded were afraid to visit hospitals for fear of being arrested. A total of eleven people died.

12 people died from the bomb, and then the police opened fire. If eleven people died from the shooting, then it should say "A total of 23 people died that day." or something like that. I don't want to change it, because I don't know what any of the numbers are supposed to be, I just know that 11 is less than 12.

Thanks for pointing that out, I missed that someone had snuck that in sometime over the past month or two. Degan was killed more or less immediately, seven other policemen died later (the bomb landed among them) and there were three documented deaths among the civilians (lots and lots of wounded by indiscriminate police gunfire though). Horrible tragedy. Don't know why, but some of the people who edit here are not only way emotional when they arrive, but don't even bother to check if their additions mesh with the existing text, never mind with the reliable sources. Wyss 03:56, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Encyclopædia Britannica says 7 police and 60 injured.--Mujeresliebres 19:40, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 21st Century Standards

The second sentence in the "Strike at the McCormick reaper plant" section is blatantly West-chauvinistic. Even today—especially today—large parts of the world have labor standards that are at the level of late nineteenth century Chicago and in many cases much worse. I've made the following change:

"By 21st century standards, working conditions in the city were miserable, with most workers working ten to twelve hour days, often six days a week under sometimes dangerous conditions."

to

"By 21st century Western standards, working conditions in the city were miserable . . ." – Antelopotamus

[edit] See Also

Is there a reason the third great awakening is in the see also section?--Mujeresliebres 19:35, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chicago Anarchism

Something should be mentioned that the Chicago anarchists weren't necessarily anarchists. In Chicago, in the 1870s and 1880s, anarchist meant simply a labor revolutionary, be s/he a follower of Marx or Bakunin. Certainly some, like Spies and Lingg were what most people would consider classical anarchists, but Albert Parsons was much closer to socialism. His statement on the issue was along the lines of, if the capitalists call him an anarchist, he'd wear the badge with pride.

[edit] Figure Error?

"In the next few days they were joined nationwide by 350,000 workers who went on strike at 1,200 factories, including 70,000 in Chicago." Something is off here. If there were stikes at 1,200 factories nationwide, there couldnt have been 70,000 in Chicago alone. I suspect an order of magnitude error. Can anyone verify what the other meant and if its a mistake? CoachMcGuirk 17:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Layout

The layout of this page is a mess in Firefox, perhaps someone with more knowledge of Wikipedia layout than I have could have a look? Donnacha 12:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

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