Talk:Hasidic philosophy

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[edit] Question

Hi,

Ummm I know next to nothing about Hasidic philosophy, so I'm not really in a position to clean this article up, but some of it (especially the section on "The Key To All Wisdom", which somehow manages to bring Star Wars into the discussion) looks like it could do with a clean. The grammar and spelling is off in a few places and looks like it has been text-messaged in (ie, lots of "Torah is all the names of Hashem, not a/t definite just the way u call them" and "you have all kinds of wisdom w/o putting in years studying it. U’ll automatically understand everything in the world." and "Cuz God is choosing without any external influences that he wants exactly like that")

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

cheers

--Gregrosman 06:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Greg you are right 100%. I had the real expert on the topic helping with this article and I'm trying to get him back to finish the job. I jotted down some notes from a class he gave and that's why you have the very messy later sections. If I knew I way to preserve that info somehow until its fixed up I'd do it but I don't want to simply delete it just yet.

• P.S. Who has just made this last comment without signing their name with the four tildes ~~~~ and who is "the real expert" as if there is one "real expert" that we are waiting for on this topic? Someone on Chabad.org? What about the dozens of other Hasidic dynasties, does the "real expert" know about them too? IZAK 07:51, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge to other articles

This article should either be re-edited or split up and divided as follows, reflected by the templates {{tl:merge to|Hasidic Judaism}}, {{tl:merge to|Chabad-Lubavitch}}, {{tl:merge to|Tanya}} because: (a) this topic is not different to Hasidic Judaism; (b) It basically reflects mostly Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidic philosophy, links and sources; and (c) it reflects the teachings emanating from the Tanya. Thank you. IZAK 08:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. The topic of Hasidic philosophy is extremely vast. This article could be three times as long as it is without even begin to scratch the surface of what it is all about. The answer to your criticisms is to ADD MORE information and links about other sects of philosphy and dynasties etc. not to merge it with other articles that are long enough as they are.

But also note that the amount of scholarship that has been produced on Hasidic philosphy by Chabad dwarfs that of all the other Hasidic groups put together, and their Hasidic philosophy is the most widely disseminated, learned and well known of any other group, so when you edit, I recommend that the emphasis reflect those facts. (In fact, the Chabad yeshiva system is the only one among all Hasdic groups that makes study of Hasidic philosophy a mandatory and significant part of the yeshiva curriculum.)

P.S. Maybe that person who wrote is like me and doesn't know how to leave a signature...if you show me how I'd be glad to use it.70.107.126.198 01:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Thanks

• (The above was actually written by anonymous User:69.114.171.152 [1] [2] [3] [4]. I don't know where User:70.107.126.198 comes into the picture. Thank you. IZAK 09:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC).)

you leave a signature by writing four tildas ~

Itzik18 23:03, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

To the anonymous User:69.114.171.152: Your words only prove my point that this article is not about "Hasidic" philosophy but it is about Chabad-Lubavitch philosophy. Your argument that Chabad "dwarfs" other Hasidic movements only shows that you are a "snob" and your editing should have the warning "Chabad snob alert" because you have no respect or tolerance for anything besides Chabad, and how dare you come to my user page [5] [6] and preach to me that I am a "snob" when every word you utter here is sheer Chabad POV snobbery. Please don't be a shtunker and stick to editing articles and not insulting people. IZAK 09:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

A few things: I don't know how you can claim I am intolerant of other Hasidic sects when I wrote in big letters that people should "ADD MORE" information about other sects who also espouse hasidic philosophy. Further, I did not say that Chabad dwarfs the other Hasidic MOVEMENTS. That would be false. I said that the quantity of SCHOLARSHIP on hasidic philosophy produced by Chabad dwarfs that of other groups, and that Chabad's take on hasidism is the most well known of any other group.

Looking beyond the picture of the first Lubavitcher Rebbe (there is no verifiably accurate picture of the Baal Shem Tov to my knowledge) I think you will find that the article focuses on the teachings of the Baal Shem Tov who predates the distinctions between Chabad and other Hasidim, and all hasidic groups hold of him as far as I am aware.70.107.135.104 00:12, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

If this article is merged, it should merge to Hasidic Judaism. Hasidic philosophy is broader than Chabad or Tanya, which are significant but yet still only subsets of the larger topic. --MPerel ^{( talk | contrib)} 02:03, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't merge. At all. As for merging with Hassidic Judaism, both articles are, I think, long enough and important enough to stand on their own. I would never have thought that I would have come to have to explain why Hasidic philosophy shouldn't be subsumed in Tanya, but... There are not only many different kinds of chaddisut, but they can be radically different. Comparing Llikutei Moharan with Tanya is like including Judaism in Islam because they're both Abrahamic (don't read too much into the order, I'm not saying Chabad isn't Jewish...). As for the statementts that chabad dwarfs everything else or that "Looking beyond the picture of the first Lubavitcher Rebbe (there is no verifiably accurate picture of the Baal Shem Tov," I ought to point out-excuse me?! I don't know where to begin yelling ( ;) ) I don't know what makes you suppose that Tanya is so verifyably accurate. And furthermore, I don't know what makes you think that all his other followers and descendants know nothing. He DID have a grandson who was a great chassidic rebbe, and there are also many radically different intellectual descendants of the Besht. I agree whole-heartedly that if this article is currently all Chabad, we need to add more information about other groups. I'd remove the merge tags right now if it weren't such an apparently hot issue... Avraham 15:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)