Talk:Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

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-"This book contains only the second instance of narrative not delivered through Harry's point of view - the first chapter, in which the murder of Frank Bryce by Voldemort is described." This is excerpted from the first paragraph in the "Points of Interest" section.

My question is: isn't it somewhat counter-intuitive to include this information, seeing as how the would-be point-of-interest is that this book contains one of the rare instances in which the story proceeds outside of Harry's point-of-view of things, despite the fact the same paragraph later goes on to assert that this scene/instance DOES occur - to some extent, at least - within Harry's POV? Also the fact that the paragraph two instances of "narrative not delivered through Harry's point of view," with the actual instance in question of Frank Bryce's murder not being one of them (instead, citing Mr. Dursley's wizard encounter in the first book and the somewhat omniscient third-person perspective of Spinner's End in the sixth book)?

Hey I was thinking that perhaps the plot section could be merged into Harry Potter (plot) for the articles of the books. Some of the book articles have more lengthy plot summaries than the plot article, some less lengthy, and I'd like to try and make that more consistent. Any opinions? EvilPhoenix 03:16, May 21, 2005 (UTC)

i second that phoenix... gone ahead and made the change. it might be adviseable to simply link this page to the Plot, or to scrap the plot page and use the long summaries in the individual articles.... any thoughts?

--jonasaurus 01:58, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, the plot pages have been deleted, and we have a rag-bag of long and short summaries in the book articles. I have attempted to solve this by creating a significantly shorter summary than the one here, which was really too long for a quick scan, and added it in front of the longer one. Doing the summarisising, i could see the longer one needs more work. It is a little untidy, and probably now could have a few facts added... though also perhaps a few removed bearing in mind that they now get a mention in the short summary. Altogether, the whole lot is not unreasonably long for an article. Sandpiper 23:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 Themes 2 Underwater rescue 3 Images 4 At The World Cup 5 Points of interest: Cleanup Request

[edit] Themes

I have always thought an overriding theme of the book was the indifference of race to the innocent, and the overriding concern of race to the guilty. Harry's love interest is Cho Chang, a girl of asian decent, and his date is Patil, a girl of middle eastern or Indian descent. Hermonine dates a Bulgarian native. Draco Malfoy only goes with another pure-blood member of his house. Voldemort's death eaters are also all white, pure-blood (or pretenders to such).

The theme is further explored via the minor characters. Neville Longbottom dates Ginny Weasly, but he wanted a date, and Ginny wanted to go to the dance. One of the Weasley twins asks Angelina, a black girl, to the dance, and she accepts. Neither considers it a big deal. Even Ron had a huge crush of Fleur, and even asked her to the Yule Ball. It didn't matter that she was 3 years older than him, a foreign girl, and, they barely spoke the same language. Jclinard 08:43, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, but race, in the concrete, does not play an important role in Harry Potter. Blood purity becomes a metaphor for race. While it is important that characters did or did not care about the blood purity of their dates, the actual races of their dates is relatively unimportant. However, one theme of Goblet of Fire is nationalism, so it is siginificant when characters from different schools ask each other out.12.17.189.77 19:00, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Underwater rescue

Am I the only person on earth who wonders how the hell 3 major characters got kidnapped and were held hostage underwater in the middle of Hogwarts? I mean, what the hell? This lake full of grindylows has been sitting there nigh 4 years and they happen to pop up and go all insurgent at just the choice time when the novel needed some urgency? Somebody please explain this. The Crow 03:38, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

"In the Second Task, Harry is sent into the Black Lake, on the Hogwarts Grounds to rescue..."
Ever considered that they were put there by the Triwizard organizers (which they were)? Brian Jason Drake 11:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

As you will surely recall, the "hostages" (or at least Ron and Hermione) were summoned to McGonagall's office, put under protective spells, and placed in the lake during the preparations for the second task. Recall the scene where Hermione and Ron were in the library with Harry, researching methods to enable breathing underwater for an hour. Fred and George showed up with a summons for Ron and Hermione from Professor McGonagall. This is all well explained in the book. If you only saw the movie, without first reading the book, then you might have missed those details. --T-dot 11:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't recall as it's been 5 years since I read the book. This article itself refers to them as hostages, so no need for the scare quotes there. You can correct the article if you think they weren't hostages (personally I do, and I think it's kind of sick that responsible guardians would do something like that). At any rate, the backstory should probably go in the synopsis. The Crow

I haven't read the book for a while but I can't remember seeing any indication that these people were put there against their will (except for Ron's dramatic stories, which sound like they have nothing to do with the truth). Therefore that response is probably a bit extreme. What we can be fairly sure about is that this was a harsh trick on the contestants. Brian Jason Drake 06:48, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

The article clearly states that it is about the book and has a link to the movie article, which happens to have its own synopsis. Therefore, this isn't relevant here.

This event was also in the book, was it not? 17:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

This event was also in the book, but the movie obviously has a different story, and it happens to have its own article here. Nevertheless, it could probably be a bit clearer - see my comment above about assumptions. Brian Jason Drake 06:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

Wouldn't it be appropriate to delete the French edition cover here and put it on the French Wikipedia equivalent of this page? (I'm saying this on all of the Harry Potter book discussion pages). -Phi*n!x 01:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

See Talk:Harry Potter#Foreign language cover images. Brian Jason Drake 06:08, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] At The World Cup

Someone recently added text about the Death Eaters rampage at the World Cup. It described Harry as being knocked out and Barty Crouch, Jr. conjuring the Death Mark. However, it did not happen this way in the book. Harry was always conscious, and he, Ron, and Hermione were not separated--they hid in the woods. Also, it was actually Winky who conjured the Death Mark, using Harry's stolen wand. I changed the wording to reflect this. My understanding is that the Wikipedia articles should only reflect events as they occured in the books and not the movies. PNW Raven 20:27, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Winky did not conjure the Dark Mark, in case you don't recall, Barty Jr. was a Death Eater and it was a heavy, raspy male voice that said the spell. The only magic Winky used was her bond to Barty to try and stop him from running away. Barty actually confesses to conjuring the mark when he's under the influence of Veriteserum. Other than that you're right, we should use the events as they were portrayed in the book and not the movie. 68.40.190.172 20:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Points of interest: Cleanup Request

Problem: Information in this section appears to be difficult to comprehend by individuals who aren't knowledgable about the series. Much of the information supplied in this section could be more comprehendable with direct quotations from the novel.

I've worked on cleaning up the grammar, someone else take it from here. -Litanss 11:41, 25 November 2006 (UTC)