Talk:Harold and Inge Marcus Department of Industrial and Manufacturing Engineering

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[edit] world->nation, 1908->1909?

I found information in this reference: Bezilla, Michael (1996). The College of Engineering at Penn State - A Century in the Land-Grant Tradition. The Pennsylvania State University Press, 52. IBSN 0-271-01550-0. that disputes some of the info in this IE article. Specifically:

• IE was a two-year course within ME in 1908, is that the same as the department being founded? (I'm asking) (pg. 52)
• IE department was first in the nation in 1909, not world (pg. 52, and listed under "National Distinctions" on the outside back cover)

I know this is a wiki, but you obviously put a lot of work into the article, and I didn't want to jump in and make changes without first consulting you. For the Glory, Rob^Talk 00:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not sure about this. The IE Dept. website ([1]) says 1908 and first in the world, and Bezilla in his illustrated history of PSU says:

"These studies proved so popular that a year later [i.e., in 1909] they were expanded to a four-year program and formed the core of a new Department of Industrial Engineering-the first of its kind in the world."

Not sure what that means, but it's at least true that being the "first in the nation" doesn't exclude also being the "first in the world". The 1908 vs. 1909 thing isn't clear either; not sure what to do about that. Seems like the term "department" is a rather new construction, and as a result different people apply it to different things. In the actual text of the article I avoid the problem by stating the 2-year course was started in 1908 and the 4-year course in 1909. I'm fine with saying the department was founded in 1909, but it's rather ambiguous. —Spangineer^[es] (háblame) 01:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Based on further research, I'm not sure either actually. The Bezilla book says one thing, but University archives support the first in the world claim with a quote from Marcus. So benefit of the doubt rules, and first in the world it is. Rob^Talk 18:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)