Talk:Harmal

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This article is part of the WikiProject on Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants, set up to organize and expand entries on Psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants as well as related subjects according to chemical type, effects, organic carriers, and cultural/historical uses. Please feel free to participate by editing this article and visiting the project page.

This page should be moved back to syrian rue. 9,000 hits for harmal -tell and 55,000 for syrian rue on google. i've never heard it called harmal. --Heah (talk) 22:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. Harmal is what it is called in my botanical textbooks (they don't even mention 'Syrian Rue'). I consider such sources far more authoritative than a google hit count, which is widely cited on wikipedia as a poor means for making decisions. Harmal is also unique, distinct, and avoids confusion, while 'Syrian rue' could mean any species of Ruta found in Syria, not necessarily this species - MPF 23:52, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

botanical textbooks do not and are not meant to specify what a plant is most commonly known as. they are, after all, botanical textbooks. manual of style naming conventions clearly state that "the most common name" should be used when naming an article about a person or thing. in this sort of situation, the google hit count is clearly a more reliable indicator of what this plant is most commonly known as. when discussed outside the realm of botany- as it is, at least partially due to its use as an analog to ayahuasca- it is virtually always "syrian rue".

The page should clearly state (as it does) that Syrian rue is not a true species of rue, which should be enough to ward off any possible confusion. even in the unlikely event that someone typed in "syrian rue", curious as to what sort of rue grew in syria, the page would say that p. harmala is not a species of rue.

I beleive we had this conversation some time ago, and i deferred; however, i wanted to bring it up again and so left a message on the talk page so it could be discussed. its nice to discuss things before they are done, particularly when there is obviously a disagreement as to what should be done. I also brought it up at the WikiProject on Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants talk page, where it was agreed that the page should be moved back to Syrian rue. I'm moving it back pending discussion. (It's polite to discuss things first, ya know?)

--Heah (talk) 02:18, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible there should be two separate articles here -- one for botanists about the plant 'Harmal' and one for the Psychedelics,etc. project on the entheogenic use of the plant under the title Syrian Rue, with a link between the two? It seems like both articles serve somewhat distinct needs. Kit 03:20, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The manual of style naming conventions|naming conventions also clearly state "Convention: Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things" (my emphasis). Syrian Rue, as a title, clearly conflicts with the standard meaning of Rue as Ruta species. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)#Don't overdo it: "In cases where the common name of a subject is misleading (For example: "tidal wave" would be a misleading title since these phenomena have nothing to do with tides), then it is sometimes reasonable to fall back on a well-accepted alternative (tsunami, for example)". This is clearly relevant to this instance.

Kit's idea has some merit, though personally, I think it makes more sense to keep the species and its uses together (as in the vast majority of plant pages); other similar examples (e.g. Coffee/Coffea) deal with vastly longer pages where combining would make the page too long. When there's less than half a page in total, splitting it isn't the best thing to do

PS "(It's polite to discuss things first, ya know?)", yeah, true, but I never saw the posting about it on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tree of Life . . . - MPF 11:22, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Application

Harmal is a drug with a real good effect. If you take a tea.spoon of this semen, the effect starts about an half hour later. The taste is very bitterly, so you have to mix it with honey or other similar food. The ectasy will happen for 6 hours or so. The beginning is suddenly, while the end is slowly. The mood is in this good till euphoric and you can laugh very often. By the next day you don`t have any side effects. But caution! It is a MAO-inhibitor. So you can not eat everything, before you swallow the semen. Following food you can not eat: cheese, alcohol, especially red wine, pineapples, yoghurt, bananas, chocolade, hewrrings and sauerkraut. All this things you have to avoid absolutely, else you get ill or even you can die! --Fackel 21:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)