Talk:Hüsker Dü

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So, this article hasn't been significantly changed in 2-1/2 years. The original lacked factual information in favor of a musical analysis; in rewriting it, I tried to balance a band biography with an explanation of the group's importance. --ESP 22:46, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Accidental sound 2 Revert? 3 I like it 4 Drag Queens? 5 Just awful 6 MRR? 7 Influences 8 "Changes...Should Be Discussed" 9 Personnel 10 NPOV 11 Infobox picture 12 Infobox photo(s) 13 Unsourced factoid and quote. 14 Pronounciation 15 Someone hates breathing

[edit] Accidental sound

The sound clip "Broken Heart, Broken Home" contains a sound, I'm pretty sure it's unintentional. It sounds like the person who recorded the clip got an MSN messenger message while recording. listen here: http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=HuskerDuBrokenHeartBrokenHome.ogg&wiki=en

There may well be a "found" sound on the song, but it's not likely to be accidental--or, if it was an accident, it's one they decided to keep because they liked it. Our Band Could Be Your Life mentions a band--Sonic Youth?--that found that they had recorded a song on tape that had previously had a fiddle band recorded on it, and you could hear the backward fiddle in the background. They thought it sounded cool so they released it like that.

You probably know there was no MSN Messenger when Zen Arcade was recorded, right? I assume it's an analogy and not a hypothesis. Nareek 00:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The song I was thinking of was "Creep in the Cellar" by Butthole Surfers. Nareek 00:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revert?

I didn't understand this revert, since the edits seem kind of clean. I'm thus reverting the revert. If there's a problem with the edits, please post the reason for reverting here. --ESP 03:16, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

[edit] I like it

Hi, I'd just like to say I really like this biography...especially the "Overview" that describes the band's sound. I'm not sure if the users' comments complaining about this page below are still true, but I found it an informative read. --Stuart mcmillen 11:28, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Drag Queens?

Re-added a ref to Mould and Hart's relationship. Circa '85, it was an uncontroversial statement around the Twin Cities. It was only later that it became a 'likely fabricated' rumor. Mould and Hart's tedentious relationship had a lot to do with their artistic split. Auto movil 17:14, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

What is the source on the info that Mould and Hart were drag queens and lovers? Mould has consistently denied the lover rumors over the years, and I've never read anything about their being drag queens except here.

No articles I have ever read have said anything about drag queens; probably just a rumor.

I'm taking it out then. Nobody's come forward to say anything except "everybody knew it back then." If everybody knew it back then, there'd be a record of it somewhere. Bcarlson33 16:49, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Just awful

What a mess! This article is an example of the worst of Wikipedia: The screed about the umlauts (which used to be the FIRST paragraph of the article) is pointless, rambling, badly written, and conveys no information about the band, its music, or its influence. It might be interesting as part of heavy metal umlaut, but it really doesn't belong here. The fact that 20% of this article is devoted to this worthless paragraph is an embarrassment. It ought to be deleted.

In addition, I can't believe that the unverifiable (and likely completely fabricated) passage about drag queens was ever part of the article. Whether or not they were gay has nothing to do with the music or the band. Husker Du was not a "gay band", and Mould is still reticent to discuss it. This isn't Frankie Goes To Hollywood. Sexual orientation belongs on biography pages, not band pages.

Perhaps you don't know that this is WIKIpedia, not BITCHYpedia. If you have some problems with the article, fix them instead of complaining. Jeez.

I'm taking that stupid "cleanup" template out of the page. Every page on Wikipedia can use some work, and there's no reason to single this one out. If you feel it really needs some attention, add it to your personal TODO list. --ESP 02:37, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Tried to get the paragraph to stop arguing with itself and only offer non-assumed information. Brodo 03:25, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad the mess about the name was cleaned up, but I had to add that "Hüsker Dü" doesn't mean anything in Danish or Norwegian, "Husker Du" does. Were I a personal acquitance of other Wikipedians, I'd launch into a rant about Anglosaxons not caring a toss about accent marks or umlauts, but I'm not, so I'll skip that. — JIP | Talk 17:02, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] MRR?

It boggles my mind that I have read 100 issues of MRR and not once have I read the word Husker Du. If you know this big mag then you know that there is something amiss. I guess one could say that there is a big lack of Husker coverage in this flagship zine. It is very odd, at any rate. For a Husker reference see an article I had a strong hand in:Disciples of Annihilation. They work with Jello. .--McDogm 05:54, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Influences

Is it really necessary to list every single band that's ever mentioned Husker Du as an influence? Why not just say something like "Husker Du is regarded as a major influence on modern alt-rock" and name maybe a handful of better-known bands? Bcarlson33 15:45, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree on this point. To me, music articles on Wikipedia overprioritize "influence," often to the neglect of saying just what it was the artist did in the first place to have exerted such an influence. The paragraph here is an example. Ccoll 07:39, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Again, this section is getting out of hand. We don't need to hear about every single instance of a band covering a Husker song or making a Husker reference. 216.204.15.82 22:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Changes...Should Be Discussed"

Bcarlson33 writes; "Husker was not a hardcore punk band in any sense past 1983. Changes like this should be discussed in talk first." I agree with the change (back), but not with the comment. It seems like the Wikipedia way to discuss a minor change is to make it--if people don't like it they'll change it back. And they did, rightly.

I wasn't sure that Husker Du should be in the hardcore punk category as well--after consulting (and getting sucked into editing) the "hardcore punk" article, I guess Land Speed Record qualifies. Nareek 18:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I guess I didn't consider it to be a minor edit- the narrative of the Huskers' story is that they spent some time playing hardcore and punk music, but managed to forge an original sound from elements of hardcore, punk and a number of other styles. To categorize them as hardcore punk was, to me, less accurate than the generic "rock" category when looking at their career as a whole.Bcarlson33 22:16, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you were absolutely right to change it back. But you yourself labeled the change back with an "m" for minor (which, actually, I probably wouldn't have done--it does seem nontrivial). I do think Wikipedia would get bogged down if every change of that magnitude went to discussion first.

I meant that the change to hardcore was worth discussing- the revert back to the previous category was minor, since it was already in place. Bcarlson33 15:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of discussion, is it time to archive some of the old discussion here? If people are talking about an old version of the article and their criticisms don't really apply anymore, then having the comments at the top of the Talk page is unhelpful. I'd do it but perhaps someone with a better sense of the page's history would make a better cutoff.... Nareek 23:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Husker Du should be listed both under the hardcore punk and alternative rock categories. WesleyDodds 07:41, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

In my view, the band predated the "alternative rock" category, which came from the major labels with Nirvana's success. "Alternative rock" has not lasted as a term so it wouldn't make sense to associate with them. College rock or indie rock make more sense to me. Some research into how contemporary reviews categorized admittedly no-longer-hardcore stuff like Zen Arcade would probably help. They may still have been called punk rock. Ccoll 15:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Husker Du are widely considered, along with the Replacements, with bridging the evolutional gap between punk and alternative. And "alternative rock" has been in use since the 80's. Alternative rock didn't start with Nirvana. WesleyDodds 10:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Does WP have a postpunk category? It's not worth starting one just for one band, but it's the most apt description of Husker and others in that time and style that I've come across. Bcarlson33 15:43, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it is: Post-punk. I agree with you first that post-punk is more apt than alternative rock but also second that plain old "rock" is the best, because it will be the most lasting term and therefore probably most encyclopedic. At least "post-punk" is a somewhat meaningful word, unlike "alternative". But maybe the best solution is to throw all the categories on the page, so that the band can be found under any genre a user might be searching for them? Maybe the band's uncategorizability should be addressed in the article. It's one of the reasons they're so important. Ccoll 18:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Husker Du is already listed on the list of post-punk artists, but keep in mind that the article on Post-punk is largely in reference to British bands like Joy Division, Gang of Four, The Cure, and the Fall, who tend to have a generally-similar sound. WesleyDodds 10:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Personnel

ld I took out the section as it didn't add any info that wasn't in the lead. Nareek 00:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)r du

[edit] NPOV

Husker Du... someone was correct in stating they are both punk and alternative. I must say there is a total lack of real information about this powerfull trio here. My suggestion to all of you who have commented in this discussion is listen to the music. You will notice Grant's vocals v/s Bob's. This is a band of uncanny versatility. Husker Du is both alternative and punk and should be recognised in both catagories as true pioneers of originality. They are without a doubt the most underated band of the punk era. So... let,s get the facts straight then tell the story the way it should be told. Let's show some well deserved respect to Grant Hart and Bob Mould.(this entry was unsigned)

This belongs in a different section of the talk page, but whatever. I'd question how they're the most underrated band of the punk era- reviewers were falling over themselves to blubber on about how great the Huskers were, and they were one of SST's best-selling bands. Also, while I'm sure your intention was to cheer on a band you like, isn't using phrases like "listen to the music" and "get the facts straight" is a little condescending? I've "listened to the music" for going on 25 years, I think I have a good sense of what they sound like. So do lots of others here. Nobody's failing to "show respect to Grant Hart and Bob Mould." Bcarlson33 12:59, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

The reason this article doesn't go on and on about how great Husker Du is is because Wikipedia has a policy of taking a neutral point of view. Nareek 15:39, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox picture

When I created the infobox I merely used the image already on the page as a placeholder. However, this image is too large and distorts the box. Can someone add a smaller picture of the band for the infobox and move the promo photos farther down in the article? WesleyDodds 00:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

I previewed the page without the band images, but I don't think the size of the band photo is a problem - the little contents box is pretty tall and would negate any impact decreasing the image size would have.

The infobox picture might be a little big. But it's more that there are 2 pictures, which seems unnecessary. They don't look much different in the second one.Ccoll 05:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's basically what I'm saying. The picture is too huge for an infobox. WesleyDodds 13:07, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox photo(s)

I was the one who posted/uploaded those promo photos. I actually fused them into one image, so even though it's two pictures, it's one file.

I went ahead and cleaned it up. This good? L1759

[edit] Unsourced factoid and quote.

I removed the following line from the article:

Mould also responded to fan Julian Nasti's suggestion that "...the band get back together for a gig in Hunters Hill Bowling Club Carpark" as "...insane and not the words of a man who values his life." Therefore it is reasonable to conjecture that Mould has no intention of reforming Husker Du any time this side of hell freezing over.

It looked like a prank or vandalism to me. There was no source for the quote, the fan's name is unnotable (it's probably the name of whoever did the edit), and the line was folded in front of an external link to a Bob Mould blog entry about the Mould/Hart performance at the Karl Mueller benefit. In any case, not AGF, and very uncool. If there's any truth to this instance/quote, provide proof before posting any old bullshit. --Cjmarsicano 04:20, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronounciation

How do you pronounce their band name? I've heard it pronounced in a Joan Rivers clip with the band on YouTube as Hoo-s-ker Doo.

[edit] Someone hates breathing

"Also, many people credit Zen Arcade to be the first form of emo, even before Embrace and Rites of Spring."

Huh?

"Many people credit Zen Arcade to be the first form of emo."

Um...

"Zen Arcade...emo."

Does the preceding conversational tone seem illogical, stupid, ridiculous? Well, so does the opening sentence. What kind of asshole compares Zen Arcade, or Hüsker Dü in general, to emo? I'm removing this based on grounds of general ignorance and fallacy, and I hope whatever deity the person that added this little wish/hope/dream believes in has mercy on their fucking soul. Dudewhiterussian 06:11, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

I have absolutely no emotional investment in emo, but I was curious if it was true that "many people" credit HD with being the founders of emo.

Led by former members of renowned hardcore bands, Embrace and Rites of Spring left behind the macho buzzsaw guitars and mosh pits to pursue something more complex. The bands got their inspiration from Husker Du’s LP, “Zen Arcade,” which showed punks everywhere that caustic guitars and literate, angst-ridden lyrics equaled catharsis (and not sissy music). [1]

In a relatively brief career that saw no hit singles or gold records, Husker Du left an indelible mark, having a great impact on subsequent rock trends, including grunge, alternative, and emo. [2]

Emo, a music genre that's short for "emotional hardcore" started with bands like Husker Du, Rites of Spring, and Embrace. [3]

Also informing the music were early non-DC indie bands like Husker Du and The Descendants, who produced agressive punk-informed music with subtle complexities and personal lyrics; early emo borrowed some cues from these bands. Husker Du (from Minnesota) in particular left a mark with its extremely influential 1984 release, Zen Arcade, pointing a possible new direction for hardcore to go. [4]

That's just from the first page of a Google "emo husker du" search. Like it or not, there does seem to be a sense out there that Husker Du and Zen Arcade had something to do with the rise of emo. Nareek 10:41, 2 July 2006 (UTC)