Talk:Höfle Telegram
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The correct number for the people killed in Treblinka is 71,355 and not 713,555 as before stated. Thus making the total Jewish victims of Aktion Reinhard in 1942 as 631,966 and not 1,274,166 as before stated..That is a huge discrepancy.
- The number 1,274,166 is given in the telegram itself, making your changing of the number make no sense at all. Every source out there agrees that the final "5" was missing from the figure for Treblinka in the British intercept (transcription errors were not uncommon in strings of number) - both because the total number of deaths given in the telegram clearly requires a total number of people killed at Treblinka to be 713,555, not 71,355 and because the Korherr Report itself includes the 713,555 figure; as well as the fact that the 71355 number just wouldn't make sense given other data about Treblinka. --Goodoldpolonius2 03:21, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
And how exactly do you know that the mistake was not made when they calculated the total and instead of 71,355 they typed in 713,555?? It is a lot closer to all other numbers and when they are talking about 1.1 million within 3 years in Auschwitz which was the largest concentration camp, then 73,155 sound very reasonable. And it's not a transcipt btw. The article claims that it is the original telegram. If it is a transcript then all numbers could be wrong.
- Again, we know where the mistake was made because: (a) The exact same numbers were used in the Korherr report, including the 713,555 number for Treblinka, and Korherr got his numbers from Eichmann's office, where the telegram was sent, and (b) The telegram says 1,274,166 people were killed in total, and it is more likely that a "5" was missing at the end of the Treblinka decrypt (especially as the 713,555 number is actually used elsewhere by the Nazis) making the numbers sum properly, than that the total was entirely and completely the wrong number, with the wrong number of digits and (c) In Jurgen Stroop's report, 310,000 Jews were transported in freight trains from the Warsaw ghetto to Treblinka during the period from July 22, 1942 to October 3, 1942, making the 71,355 number make no sense at all. Again, I don't think any scholar doubts this point, so you might want to show a source. Also worth noting is that Treblinka had the second largest death toll of any camp, even though it only operated through October, 1943, and the majority of the deportations to it happened in the fall of 1942, as the Warsaw Ghetto and other nearby areas where liquidated. Incidentally, I never said that it was a transcript, I said that the issue was a transcription error, the document itself is a decryption of a Nazi telegram intercepted by the British, as the article states. --Goodoldpolonius2 07:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] British National Archive at Kew (fake Documents)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/02/nhimmler02.xml
Someone was able to smuggle fake Documents into the british national Archive in 2005. Maybe they should take a closer (forensic) look at that Höfle Telegram...
[edit] Death Toll?
"it gave death tolls for the Aktion Reinhard camps through December 31, 1942." The document isn't talking about "death tolls" at all. Please stop lying about the contents of documents!
[edit] Wrong wording
Moved from main article --Errant Tmorton166(Talk)(Review me) 00:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC):
Dissent: == Hoefle telegram ==
There is a fundamental translation error in the "Hoefle telegram" article. The German word "Zugang" simply means arrivals, rather than "deaths." This changes the total context of the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Erodin (talk • contribs).
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- I see what you mean. The original publication by Witte and Tyas has a direct and proper translation. They then go on to explain the terminology, specifically the euphemisms or code words that were used in such communications. The WikiPedia article gives only a summarised interpeted translation, as if the reader knows all about the code words. It does not give any information as to why the telegram is of any importance, i.e. why it qualifies for inclusion in WP (which I think it does). I'll post the proper translation when I find my copy, plus some reasons for why it is a significant find. --Seejyb 09:26, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Rewrote most of the article
I've added the direct translation, as promised. The number difference (missing "5") is pretty well established as beyond reasonable doubt, as per the Korherr doc. The issue of "document replacement" (authenticity of the original) may best be asked of Witte and Tyas, if one is interested. Their article gives a reasonable overview of the euphemisms used by the executioners of Einsatz Reinhardt, should one wish to look further. --Seejyb 22:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand why this article appears at all - the telegram in its translated form gives numbers arriving and totals at each camp. So what?
