Talk:Guatemala

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Contents 1 Sources? 2 Quiché 3 Anon comment with homework due 4 54 coup 5 Mormon fantasyland in Guatemala?? 6 Map 7 Vandal info 8 Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board 9 End of Political violence in Guatemala 10 Dept or dept 11 Demographics 12 Culture 13 Religion 14 Guatemala Portal 15 War Heroes 16 Catholic Leader 17 Most Modern City? 18 National Anthem 19 Motto 20 Considerable Vandalism 21 united fruit company 22 Map 23 Jewish Community 24 Independence day 25 References

[edit] Sources?

The Guatemala page is seriously lacking in citations. This page needs sources identified to ensure its accuracy.

[edit] Quiché

I don't know, but the link from Quiche goes to quiche which has nothing to do with the province of Quiche meant in the text!

Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes an accent mark makes a LOT of difference! Changed to "Quiché". Cheers, -- Infrogmation 13:23, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Anon comment with homework due

I've never used this site, but I'm wondering why this page is offered in a trillion languages EXCEPT the most obvious one? Why is there no Spanish translation? It would really help for my project due tomorrow :)

The link to the Español version works fine. -- Infrogmation 15:54, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 54 coup

No mention of the '54 demolition of its democracy? Communism isn't democratic.--70.189.32.215 02:42, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

You didn't bother to look at History of Guatemala, eh?

Funny, when I see a "History" on the main page, I expect to find the history there ... in particular that if, say, I search for "54" and miss it, that there's nothing about it. Why not have the history of Guatemala all on one freaking page?

"Guatemala" is meant to be an overview of the country, not an in-depth analysis of all aspects. Individual pages like History of Guatemala and Geography of Guatemala go into greater depth on their respective topics. If there are individual events or periods in Guatemalan history that warrant even more detail, they will have their own articles.

If we tried to include everything about Guatemala in the "Guatemala" article, it would be far too long and detailed to be useful. (For an example of a page where too much historical detail is presented on the country page, see Germany.) It's a tough call to decide which facts, dates, and events should be included in the summary. If you think that 1954 is important enough to be mentioned in the historical summary, you can always add a short sentence about it. —Bkell 09:30, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I agree with Bkell, --SqueakBox 17:03, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mormon fantasyland in Guatemala??

Why is it of any interest to anyone that some crank reliigion locates one of its fantasylands in Guatemala? I am referring to the paragraph under "Geography" that mentions the land of Lehi-Nephi or whatever. This has absolutely nothing to do with Guatemala.

Removed text moved below. Possibly it could go in as a point in some future detailed article about tourism in Guatemala.

"In Mormon culture, Guatemala is the most popular traditional location of the Book of Mormon land of Lehi-Nephi, though this is not official doctrine of the LDS Church. The popular LDS tourism service, Israel Revealed, has package tours that include various spots in Guatemala."

It is not for you to judge whether a religion is a "crank religion", or whether its sacred lands are "fantasylands". This is a real religious and cultural tradition and it pertains to Guatemala's geography. If geography is the wrong section, then move it to another. Either way, it must remain. When you remove content citing "crank" and "fantasyland", then I call that vandalism, and anyone else would agree. - Gilgamesh 03:43, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

As a non-Christian and student of Mayan art and society the Mormon connection is very important and very interesting.

JPZuniga I agree that the Mormon reference does not make any sense. This is not Guatemala Culture, it is Mormon Culture. I have visit Guatemala, and they are more into catholic culture, for example, tha Easter Celebration is a huge deal there, with big processions and arts on the streets. Besides the Curch still strong there and the catholics have a Guatemalan Saint, the Brother Peter, who was the first saint in Central America. The Mormo reference is just an idea from some people who believe in that, it should go to an article about Mormon Culture, or Mormon American Judaism, or something like it.

mcg I also agree that this Morman reference has no place being here. It has nothing to do with Guatemalan Culture. The Israel Revealed reference smacks of an advertisement as well.

[edit] Map

See Talk:Geography of Guatemala

Map

What do people think? would like to see a different map at Geography of Guatemala from the one we have here, --SqueakBox 23:04, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC) Haha..."crank religion." Having spent some time in Guatemala and in Belize, I can say first hand that understanding the influence of the Mennonites and the Mormons is quite significant in understanding the culture of the country.

[edit] Vandal info

The following is, I think, of interest, so I post it here, --SqueakBox 17:01, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)

I deleted the text below. None of what you posted was in any way related to the vandalization. It was a political article without any relevance to this discussion.

[edit] Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board

I would like to announce the establishment of the Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 04:02 (UTC)

[edit] End of Political violence in Guatemala

Political Violence is alive and well in Guatemala. See for example the Amnesty International report from November 6 2003. It is true that the peak of violence was reached in 1983 but it wasn't until Bill Clinton cut off financial support to the Guatemalan Government in 1994 that the Governmant began to make real efforts to reduce violence against opposition political activists. Having just spent 2 months there this spring I would say that a resumption of hostilities is not imminent but a great deal of anger and suffering lingers and the peace is not stable or certain.

[edit] Dept or dept

I propose to change the names from say Totonicapán Department to Totonicapán department, SqueakBox 15:55, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

please see Talk:Departments of Guatemala Tobias Conradi (Talk) 16:17, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Squeakbox; I invite you to make a statement there in favor of why we should use department instead of Department. Having more real-world examples will only help. --Golbez 18:48, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Demographics

Someone keeps changin demographics for Guatemala. The percentage is that Mestizos and whites make up 59% of Guatemala. In reality whites represent less than 2% of Guatemalans. This is incorrect. Someone please do your homework before posting information. This is a encyclopedia anyone can edit, but make sure your information is accurate.

[edit] Culture

The culture section of this article is weak. Guatemalan culture is similar to the culture of other Latin American countries. "Much of the clothing and food is still made in the traditional Maya way." Not true. Perhaps in scattered rural areas, but the vast majority of people in Guatemala dress in the manner of Europeans and North Americans, and they buy their clothes in clothing stores. "Food is still made in the traditional Mayan way". Meaning what, exactly? Most Guatemalans shop for their food in markets or supermarkets, and cook it up on electric stoves.

You are, of course, totally right, and it sdounds like the article is being very patronising. Feel free to change it, or I weill have a go when I have some time, SqueakBox 20:12, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Religion

The leader of Guatemnalan Catholic Church has changed to "Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri" since January 2006.

User: Cuete Date: 23/02/2006

---

The following paragraph was removed for lacking propper references: "In connection with the country's dominant Roman Catholic faith, the patron Saints of Guatemala are Our Lady of the Rosary and St. James the Greater."

Those aren't patron Saints of Guatemala.

Cuete 08:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Guatemala Portal

Please help expanding the Portal.

Thanks

--alfiboy 19:53, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War Heroes

I consider that the following paragraph in the History section should be removed:

"The Guatemalan army had many heros. Some stand ouut include Ramon Martinez and Jose Gracia Padilla of Guatemala City. Another Decorated war hero is Juan Garcia Fabian. With a backround in Huehuetenango he helped the Guatemalan Army defeat the marxist guerillas. He is a true hero in the eyes of all Guatemalans. The army could not defeat the URNG that had access to more sophisticated weapons."

It does not have any reliable source.

[edit] Catholic Leader

The following paragraph in the Religion section:

"The current Roman-Catholic leader of Guatemala, Rodolfo Cardinal Quezada Toruño, is the archbishop of Guatemala City and a cardinal of the Roman Catholic Church."

Should change to: "The current Roman-Catholic leader of Guatemala is Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri"

Mons. Álvaro Leonel Ramazzini Imeri was elected as president of the "conferencia episcopal de Guatemala" on January 23 2006, for the period 2006-2008, and he is the actual cathilic church leader.

Ref. [1]

Please don't change it back without propper references.

Cuete 08:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most Modern City?

"The capital city remained Guatemala City which is still today the biggest and most modern city in Central America." Are there any sources to support that it is more modern than Panana City, San Salvador, or San Jose.

It's defenitely more modern than San Salvador, San José, etc. But Panama City may be the most modern due to their skyline, but I'm not sure.

Gtrojan 19:28, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] National Anthem

The name of the national Anthem is not Guatemala Feliz. The anthem has no name and is known only as National Anthem of Guatemala. A change of name along with a different rhythm for the anthem was proposed in 1996, but it was rejected.

[edit] Motto

Is anyone able to provide a reference showing that El País de la Eterna Primavera really is the official motto? A Google search [2] hardly yields any results. Could it ust be a catchphrase to describe the country to foreigners? Pruneau^talk 18:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Try this: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22land+of+eternal+spring%22&btnG=Search - 24,700 results;

or this: (Spanish) http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22pais+de+la+eterna+primavera%22&btnG=Search - 25,500 results. --ChaChaFut 02:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Those links only show that the phrase is used, they do not prove that it is the motto. Actually, if you add the word motto or lema, the number of results falls down to 55 and 42. Furthermore, the number of hits on Google is by no means a reliable source. I was actually looking for a government page talking about the motto, or perhaps a coin or note with the motto on it, for example, but I haven't found anything. Pruneau^talk 17:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

"Pais de la eterna primavera" (The ever lasting spring country) motto is very popular amongst Guatemalans, not so sure in other places. I googled it in spanish an there's more than 21,000 results for it I think this should give some credibility to it.

But, the official motto used to promote Guatemala internationally, by the Guatemalan Turism Institute (INGUAT) is "Guatemala, soul of the earth".

I'd like to know what's the connotation of the motto required in this field. If it refers the motto used by Guatemalan people should be "Guatemala, the eternal spring country", but if it refers to internaltional promotion (marketing) should be "Guatemala, soul of the earth".

Cuete 05:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Considerable Vandalism

There's a considerable amount of offensive vandalism to this page and it looks as though much of the actual content has been damaged. I'm not familiar enough with Wikipedia to make changes to the main page myself, but someone should seriously look into restoring a previous version of the page.

Thanks,

Yes, doing so, and blocking some of the worst vandals. -- Infrogmation 15:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it, SqueakBox 18:05, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I requested page protection like 2 months ago, But I was rejected. Gtrojan 03:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Page protection wont solve a problem like this but it will stop genuine editors. We just need to watch it better, which I for one will be doing, SqueakBox 04:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] united fruit company

there is no mention of the united fruit company in this article, though there is a a fair amount of reference to the CIA. it seems pertinent to mention their (united fruit co.) part in the US sponsored atrocities. also, i believe che guevara was originally from guatemala? well, hopefully somebody more learned than i in central american politics and history could might have a bit to say 'bout this- thanks, don't remember my account name

Che Guevara Guatemalan? He was Argentinian. If we say United Fruit were behindany atrocities we need impeccable references in order not to libel the company, SqueakBox 00:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map

What's with this map? The top-left (northwestern) corner of the Guatemala I know is decidedly pointier than that. --Homunq 18:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed you are right but I have no idea how to go about changing that, other than downloading the map and changing it with an application on your own computer. it certainly should be fixed, SqueakBox 19:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish Community

"There are also small but powerful Jewish community"

I know someone will probably accuse me of being oversensitive, but what does this mean exactly? 129.67.43.240 14:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess is there arent many of them but they have lots of money, SqueakBox 14:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independence day

Why does the independence day for Guatemala (and all Central America) is 15 september 1821? Central America was part of the New Spain and then part of the First Mexican Empire until it seceeded in 1823. Shouldn't the independence date be 1823 and from Mexico? Or in any case, shouldn't indepence be set until after the dissolution of the United Provinces of Central America, since Guatemala wasn't an independent country until then? --Alonso 19:31, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

We need references in this article please update and cited otherwise it will be disputed. alfiboy 19:28, 5 December 2006 (UTC)