Talk:Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists

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[edit] Controversial:Mullahcracy

This viewpoint about "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" is very political. There are some funny mistakes which show lack of scholar information.

1- This idea is related to Twelverss and not all of Muslims.
2- Although all of Shi'a clerics have accepted this doctorine but there varied viewpoint about its restrictions. Only few of Shi'a scholars agree with political Guardianship of clerics. Most of them limited it to judicial Guardianship.

Unfortunately almost all of the refrences aren't scholastic refrences. For example look at these six sources which refered to in lead: "the defeat of the mullahcracy...would be...historic event."BBC News on Middle East 29 October 2003[http://www.aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.24022/pub_detail.asp United States Policy toward Iran TESTIMONY Committee on International Relations (U.S. House of Representatives) Publication Date: 8 March 2006 by Michael Ledeen who uses the word ]No weapons in Iraq? We'll find them in Iran Sunday Herald 01 June 2003MENACING MULLAHCRACY Foundation for Defense of Democracies 21 February 2006Middle East: what will emerge from the ruins? Zawya.com 12 August 2006Is it compulsory to be anti-Western to condemn Israel’s war? Turkish Daily News 15 August 2006On cause and effect of a 'disproportionate response' Persian Journal 9 August 2006

Do you refered to these sites in technical or scientific cases.

This article should be written on the basis of Ja'fari jurisprudence and theology of Shi'a. Also you can use some the idea of Westen scholars like Vali Nasr who understand the meaning of Islamic concepts.

--Sa.vakilian 03:44, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Excuse me you misunderstood. This article is about "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" (ولایت فقیه) and it's a technical and scholar word in Ja'fari jurisprudence. You can make another article and called it mullahcracy and put whatever you want in it.--Sa.vakilian 15:25, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV:Limited and illimited Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists

It should be mentioned that that there is two viewpoint among Shi'a clerics from beginning untill now. We should mention welayet-e-faghih doesn't mean rule of religious clerics. The majority of Shi'a jurists believe in limited form of it which include Judiciary and observation but not legislation and executive power. Some of them believe in illimited welayet-e-faqih. It means jurist have the Islamic legitimate right and authority to do whatever Shi'a Imams do in social and political life.

The article does mention that Khomeini revised the idea and advocated total control by Islamic jurists.--Patchouli 19:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some more reliable sources

Because this article is about technical schlar Islamic issue, public media like BBC aren't reliable sources. We should find some sources which have written by some Islamic and secular scholars.

Reliability of sources:

This article is written by Paul Reynolds Paul Reynolds The part of this article which relates to this article is POV and uses foul language, thus it's not reliable.

Inaccessible.

These are good sources:

This is a reliable source about Naraqi's idea.

I propose these ones too:

  • [2] nterview: Dr. Hamid al-Bayati

UK representative of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI)--Sa.vakilian 18:34, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] irrelative parts

I insist that "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" is a scholar term. A distinct interpretation of this idea result in Islamic government in Iran. Also we can add something about the experience of a this government but we shouldn't write about the situation of Iran. Therefor I Propose to move these parts to another articles:

We can move this part of article to Politics of Iran.

  • "Additionally, as an OPEC member, Iran need not worry even if technocrats don't have the ultimate say on public policy. Due to revenues pouring in from the oil commodity, it can withstand economic sanctions and not fret about "begging foreign investors to come into Iran."[[3]]

This part doesn't relate to "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" anyway. It should be moved to Economy of Iran

  • "Moreover, Islamic education is mandatory in schools. "All public school students, including non-Muslims, must study Islam," according to International Religious Freedom Report 2006 Furthermore, no one born to Muslim parents can enter a university without passing a test on Islam and per sharia no abandoning of Islam is permissible as it constitutes apostasy. As a result, for example, one cannot study physics at a university without having attained a substantial understanding of Islam and Arabic."Baha'is may not teach or practice their faith or maintain links with co-religionists abroad" [4]. his part doesn't relate to "Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists" anyway. It should be moved to Islam in Iran and Status of religious freedom in Iran.--Sa.vakilian 18:35, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with the statments made by Sa.vakilian in this section. --Striver 18:43, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

Mullahcracy is a political and religious principle. Mandatory Islamic education is an aspect of the way of governance that is essential for understanding how a mullahcracy affects governmental decisions. Furthermore, the "In practice" section is not exclusively on Khomeini's book.

If you are reading Ruhollah Khomeini's book and wish to strictly include a summary thereof, then please edit Valiyat-e faqih (book by Khomeini).--Patchouli 07:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. Make an article and called it Mullahcracy. Absolutly it's different with Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists. I'm certain you aren't familiar with the Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists.--Sa.vakilian 10:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Also I should remind you that "Mandatory Islamic education" was not an aspect of this kind of government. During Pahlavi distiny there was Mandatory Islamic education in school. Of course Islamic Republic emphasizes on it more. --Sa.vakilian 10:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
That is because Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was a Muslim and mullahs had influence in Iran even before 1979 as I found out by reading parts of the Iran's constitution of 1906. Does guardianship of Islamic jurists not require mandatory Islamic education?

I see no difference between velayat e faqih and mullahcracy. (1) They mean introduction of sharia courts with mullahs as judges to decide many issues like family law and personal conduct. The fact that Iran had mandatory Islamic education (though, to a lesser extent) put Iran one step ahead towards this type of government. (2) It allows mullahs to implement whatever they deem in line with Islam like compulsory hijab. There was never a referendum on compulsory hijab or religious police once people voted for theocracy as their form of government.

Hypothetically speaking, if Albania were to adopt velayat e faqih, how would that differ from mullahcracy?--Patchouli 19:19, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

You misunderstood. There is wide difference about limitations of guardianship. It's wrong to recognize Sistani's viewpoint as criticism against Guardianship of the Islamic Jurists.[5]--Sa.vakilian 04:56, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the unsuitability of the section title.--Patchouli 05:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
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